AirTran DRC - judgement !

[atldc9]

So to put actual numbers to this, and I know this is unbelievably classless to discuss in public, but since no one can agree on a number, I'll step into the filth and show my numbers.

For the past 2 years I did 195K (2011) and 187k (2012) as a middle seniority, commuting 717 CA, lineholder. In 2011, I averaged 14.1 days of work per month and no nights stuck in hotels ... perfectly commutable. In 2012, 14.4 days per month, and 4 hotels. 2012 was less efficient. More days worked for less pay.

In 2013, it looks like 190k, working just under 16 days per month as SWA FO, living in base.

All these are pay numbers, not including extras like retirement, etc.

Bottom line, pretty much a wash money wise, but I have to work a slight bit more. Your mileage may vary....

 

[FlyinGuy]

Multiply TFP by 1.33 and you will get your hourly rate. TY yours is about 175. Not quite a 30k pay cut. Just tryin to keep it real.

Btw...why are there only dudes at the bar tonight? That's not right!!

 

[redflyer65]

Btw, if you want to use our Contract 2001 numbers, well, you're just an @sshole, and the discussion is over.

For using the numbers you were getting paid the day that SW purchased you? Those are the facts Ty, I don't care when or where they came from. That's what your paystub said.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

For using the numbers you were getting paid the day that SW purchased you? Those are the facts Ty, I don't care when or where they came from. That's what your paystub said.

I get it Red. I'll be going back to what I made in 2010 and stagnate there for the next 4 to 5 years. That makes it so much better.

Call it whatever you want, but my w2 will be at least 30 grand lighter my first full year at WN (and the years after until reupgrade) than my last full year at the Tranny. That's what my pay stub will say and that's a fact.

 

[bluesideup1]

Lets also not forget that every F.O. is getting a huge pay raise coming to SWA and that your career earnings are going to be a lot larger at SWA than at airtran. With over 50% or around 850 pilots of airtran getting an immediate raise crossing over and after Jan 1 2015 at least another 460 (as of right now that can upgrade and will probably closer to 600 AT pilots when the 1st hits) getting another raise since SWA bought them. It is almost hard to fathom the amount of whining that is going on. How many raises has airtran got since you were bought? how many more people are making a lot more since you were bought? The average airtran pilot will retire making a million dollars more than if they stayed at AT and you wonder why Southwest pilots don't feel to badly for you about this merger and yet you continue to cry about pay even though you will be paid a lot more over time by coming here. You know how many pay increases most Southwest pilots got since we bought airtran...0.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

How much longer was your average duty day at AAI?

 

[ArcadiaMaxima]

How many days off are there right now in the average AirTran line?

How many days off are in the average SWA? 17-18.

You have to take into account days worked. I will buy a dinner for the first AT person who can show me they are not able to make the same if not more $ at SWA working the same amount of days. I have a old friend who was a captain at AirTran an now a mid-senior FO in BWI. He says he is making more working less. Fwiw he was pretty biter sounding when the SLI was first over. He is very happy now.

 

[bluesideup1]

I get it Red. I'll be going back to what I made in 2010 and stagnate there for the next 4 to 5 years. That makes it so much better.

Call it whatever you want, but my w2 will be at least 30 grand lighter my first full year at WN (and the years after until reupgrade) than my last full year at the Tranny. That's what my pay stub will say and that's a fact.

Luv2B you just had another Tranny say it was a wash above your post. What makes you so different? You don't seem to understand how things work here on the SW side.

For arguments sake lets say you are taking a pay cut and if in the course of the last year and a half you have come to rely on those pay raises since SW bought you then I feel sorry for you that in less than 2 years you can't go back making more than when AT was bought. In an industry where pay fluctuations happen all the time all you have to do is look at United, Delta, AA and ask them how much they liked their short lived pay raises. The fact that you will make a lot more over your career here at Southwest yet you continue to cry about a short lived and fictional pay cut all the while having better seniority than you did before is just short sighted and disingenuous.

 

[redflyer65]

Lets also not forget that every F.O. is getting a huge pay raise coming to SWA and that your career earnings are going to be a lot larger at SWA than at airtran. With over 50% or around 850 pilots of airtran getting an immediate raise crossing over and after Jan 1 2015 at least another 460 (as of right now that can upgrade and will probably closer to 600 AT pilots when the 1st hits) getting another raise since SWA bought them. It is almost hard to fathom the amount of whining that is going on. How many raises has airtran got since you were bought? how many more people are making a lot more since you were bought? The average airtran pilot will retire making a million dollars more than if they stayed at AT and you wonder why Southwest pilots don't feel to badly for you about this merger and yet you continue to cry about pay even though you will be paid a lot more over time by coming here. You know how many pay increases most Southwest pilots got since we bought airtran...0.

Well stated Blue. Some have to be angry no matter what.

You can just fly your line at SW and get compensated well, or you can work a little extra and get compensated VERY well. It's a nice option either way.

 

[Ty Webb]

How much longer was your average duty day at AAI?

Depends on the plane, and what schedules you bid, but they tend to be shorter here than at SWA, that's why they are usually commutable on both ends. The consequence is that they are usually less productive, too, but I would rather have a less productive, fully commutable trip. Guys that live in base prefer the opposite (SWA style pairings).

Not sure what difference it makes, though, since eventually we'll all be flying SWA lines.

 

[Tripower455]

So, some will lose less than me, and some will lose more than me, but in my case, it's about a $2,200. per month difference, using the numbers provided by Bentover.

That's about the same, almost to the penny, as I've lost this year due to the overmanning and thinning lines. For more days worked too. Thanks Gary!

 

[zippy32]

The only truth here is that there is absolutely nothing the Air Tran guys can say that will change a single SWA guy's mind and there is nothing the SWA guys can say that will change a single Air Tran guy's mind.

So why continue? You seriously think your facts and arguments are going to make the other guy just magically say, "hmm, your know what, you are right. I stand corrected."?

I just want to fly, drink beer, make money, and go home to the kids. Join me.

 

[27 driver]

Lets also not forget that every F.O. is getting a huge pay raise coming to SWA and that your career earnings are going to be a lot larger at SWA than at airtran. With over 50% or around 850 pilots of airtran getting an immediate raise crossing over and after Jan 1 2015 at least another 460 (as of right now that can upgrade and will probably closer to 600 AT pilots when the 1st hits) getting another raise since SWA bought them. It is almost hard to fathom the amount of whining that is going on. How many raises has airtran got since you were bought? how many more people are making a lot more since you were bought? The average airtran pilot will retire making a million dollars more than if they stayed at AT and you wonder why Southwest pilots don't feel to badly for you about this merger and yet you continue to cry about pay even though you will be paid a lot more over time by coming here. You know how many pay increases most Southwest pilots got since we bought airtran...0.

That's bull********************. You got 800+ upgrades. Are they not making more money.

 

[waveflyer]

Those upgrades only helped those who upgraded

Either way - this stuff is boring and I can't wait til we're fully integrated - at least then it's not hyperbolic guesses

 

[bluesideup1]

That's bull********************. You got 800+ upgrades. Are they not making more money.

You didn't bring anywhere close to 800 upgrades to SW. Where did these magical upgrades come from? I know you didn't bring 160 aircraft over that would provide for 800 upgrades. I also know there has been far fewer upgrades than expected on our side from the transition. You also have to remember just about all of those upgrades go back to the Airtran guys after Jan 1 2015. So at best you brought around 400 temporary upgrades and just like I said in my post "most" of the pilots at SW did not received a single raise in the same time period that airtran got huge ones.

 

[ArcadiaMaxima]

I really hope this goes by fast. I would like us to go back to arguing with General Lee, she has had some good time off from here. Let's get back to arguing with her.

 

[Ty Webb]

You didn't bring anywhere close to 800 upgrades to SW. Where did these magical upgrades come from? I know you didn't bring 160 aircraft over that would provide for 800 upgrades.

Uh, we brought them to the party. . . . what happened after that wasn't exactly up to us.

Our 717's were sold to our biggest competitor . . . . and our 737NG orders/options will go to replace your geriatric pop-tops. . . . So, what's your point, again?

 

[Just thinking]

"Where did these magical upgrades come from?"............

Great question. Can you answer it? How in the world, in a period of absolutely no growth, could SWA justify upgrading 300+ Captains this year and over 500 for next year? Where did that magical 800 number appear? You got it cupcake.... the great seat grab from the senior Captains at Airtran. The lock out of the left seat until 2015 was the only way that SWAPA could steal the seats from the FAT Captains that were in the top half of the new combined seniority list. The 2004 RSW hires that are the new Captains will be on reserve for years to come (5-8 minimum). As they tire of the reserve rules they will bid back to the right seat and then the FAT FO's in the top half will move into the vacancies created. With the "flattish" growth in the future the seniority will adjust to the a true picture of what the the integrated list should have looked like without the seat grab. That is where your 800 upgrades is coming from. That is the reality. Stop living in your purple haze.

 

[Ty Webb]

"Where did these magical upgrades come from?"............

Great question. Can you answer it? How in the world, in a period of absolutely no growth, could SWA justify upgrading 300+ Captains this year and over 500 for next year? Where did that magical 800 number appear? You got it cupcake.... the great seat grab from the senior Captains at Airtran. The lock out of the left seat until 2015 was the only way that SWAPA could steal the seats from the FAT Captains that were in the top half of the new combined seniority list. The 2004 RSW hires that are the new Captains will be on reserve for years to come (5-8 minimum). As they tire of the reserve rules they will bid back to the right seat and then the FAT FO's in the top half will move into the vacancies created. With the "flattish" growth in the future the seniority will adjust to the a true picture of what the the integrated list should have looked like without the seat grab. That is where your 800 upgrades is coming from. That is the reality. Stop living in your purple haze.

I like it . . . If you could fit it on a bag sticker, I would buy one.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Unkle!!! Ok, all AT pilots are gonna lose 40k per year and will have to commute to reserve in OAK forever. All SWA pilots will get a quick upgrade from the seats that were stolen from AT cappys. GK, SWAPA, and all it's pilots conspired and duped the AT pilots to concede everything that they had at their worldclass top tier airline. Heck, they even paid off the arbitrator and the trannies were denied justice once again. They never had one say in his whole deal. That just sucks!!