AirTran DRC - judgement !

[SWA/FO]

You know ALPA told AT guys that "date of hire" would be worst case scenario. Many bought into it. Some look at Southwest to blame instead of laying the blame at ALPA.

Flash forward, ALPA tells AT guys that "they have a great case" etc.... expectations are high, then the DRC arby comes out. What a let down. Of course some blame Southwest, or maybe most.

The truth is...... almost any Union is out gunned out spent when it comes to negotiating against a fortune 500 Company. Sure we have some smart union dudes and we throw our best at them, but its really an uphill battle.

 

[Muppets]

You sound like a little whining child. Grow up, nobody cares where you are. Maybe you should have transition over sooner.

Sadly, SWA screwed that up so bad that transitions were going out of seniority order. But you are so wise.....you already knew that

 

[HowardBorden]

Why would Dan want to leave the great job that is Hawaiian for a lesser job at SWA?

It's all a matter of perspective. Dan and I would never see SWA as a better job than Hawaiian. There are many Air Tran guys who will never see SWA as a better job than Air Tran. It's not always a clear case of cash is king. It seems that the SWA guys on this board will never understand that others have different perspectives or priorities.

And drop the "you can always quit" bull ********************. We all know that is not realistic in the major airline world.

The sentiment of the statement is centered on the fact that neither you nor Dan have the slightest idea about the culture at SWA or what it means to an actual employee of the airline you both seem so happy to denigrate at every opportunity. I would never attempt to pontificate about what is what at your beloved Hawaiian because I'm smart enough to realize I don't have the slightest clue about what is or is or is not happening at an airline I don't actually work for.

The outsiders looking in only have the opportunity to make judgements about the wholly unique situation facing these two pilot groups from the perspective of the endless banal musings of the usual suspects (me included) pushing their agenda through bits and pieces of the entire puzzle. Outsiders are not privy to internal union communications or internal company info. Outsiders aren't listening to daily communications from Gary Kelly or Bob Jordan. Outsiders are not getting more than a tiny fraction of the entire picture. So please forgive me when I choose to wholly disregard the opinions of those that I know to be not entirely informed on the issues at hand.

 

[SWA/FO]

Wonder how he will feel when Southwest buys Hawaiian? :crying:

 

[Dan Roman]

Wonder how he will feel when Southwest buys Hawaiian? :crying:

Nice try! I would say the chances of SWA deciding they need a relatively small International AirBus hub in HNL to expand are slim to none. But if it did happen, I would have to wonder how the reality of you getting fenced out of the widebody flying and the inter-island flying would feel. Obviously "Gary" couldn't pull his little operate separately threat(you have nothing you could replace our type of flying with) on us and since Hawaii is an island, it's small enough that the crap you guys pulled on AirTran would not work here.
I know you guys don't believe it, but I have absolutely nothing against SWA.
I've said this before, for obvious reasons I do have an interest in how mergers go down. To be honest, it's pretty unlikely for us for a lot of reasons, but I still like to keep abreast of the merger mentality in our industry. That's the whole reason I am as active on this stuff as I am. It has nothing to do with any anti SWA feelings. I actually like your airline, think you have a great operation and have the utmost respect for a pilot group that seems to enjoy flying as much as I do. I'm not ashamed to admit that it's OK to still like to fly airplanes and there is nothing wrong with liking the airline you work for.

 

[Dan Roman]

The sentiment of the statement is centered on the fact that neither you nor Dan have the slightest idea about the culture at SWA or what it means to an actual employee of the airline you both seem so happy to denigrate at every opportunity. I would never attempt to pontificate about what is what at your beloved Hawaiian because I'm smart enough to realize I don't have the slightest clue about what is or is or is not happening at an airline I don't actually work for.

The outsiders looking in only have the opportunity to make judgements about the wholly unique situation facing these two pilot groups from the perspective of the endless banal musings of the usual suspects (me included) pushing their agenda through bits and pieces of the entire puzzle. Outsiders are not privy to internal union communications or internal company info. Outsiders aren't listening to daily communications from Gary Kelly or Bob Jordan. Outsiders are not getting more than a tiny fraction of the entire picture. So please forgive me when I choose to wholly disregard the opinions of those that I know to be not entirely informed on the issues at hand.

Howie, your welcome to pontificate on Hawaiian all you want. To be honest I like to hear from different perspectives about our airline. The ones that are off base are laughable. Sometimes, though,you can glean some insight by listening to someone coming from a completely different perspective. An outsider from SWA just might have a point of view about us that could be interesting. Isn't that the point of a web board open to the public vs a private airline specific one?

 

[Dan Roman]

So would you consider someone who was a Captain who bid to F/O a displaced Captain? We are following the SLI voted on by both parties, which many on both side are not happy with, but still are bound to live by it. I wouldn't consider that denial, I'd consider it reality. Not everyone wants to live in the real world, and when the resident ALPA Fluffer comes on here and starts trying to oil up the masses I'll call it out. And on a side note, you're starting to worry me Dan, you're becoming more and more like a Hawiian General Lee.

Someone who elects to bid a seat isn't the same as someone who is displaced, displaced is against someone's will right? Which goes to my point that displacing people out of seat they wanted has negative consequences .......when have you ever heard me denigrate LUB?

 

[Dan Roman]

BTW the reasons I'm going on and on here is not because I have nothing to do. We are supposed to go to a neighbors fricken 3rd birthday for their dog! I'm posting to avoid the inevitable. They did say they have plenty of red wine, so wait till you see my answers when I check this thread when I get back!

 

[SWA/FO]

that's what they do in Hawaii..... have parties for Dogs?

 

[Dan Roman]

Well, to make matters worse. Last month I got an invite to a cat birthday party. I said that's crazy, a party for a cat? No way, besides my dog is getting married the same day......

 

[SWA717]

Well, to make matters worse. Last month I got an invite to a cat birthday party. I said that's crazy, a party for a cat? No way, besides my dog is getting married the same day......

Lol!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

I use the 2001 rates because, what for it......THAT's WHAT YOU WERE GETTING PAID when Southwest bought you. Were you working to get higher pay? Absolutely. I get that. But for you to try and 'invent' some higher pay that wasn't there yet is BS.

We were mere days away from a TA. You know that, yet choose to ignore it. It destroys your credibility.

And I also understand you don't give a crap about unity here because we are SWAPA. If you could come burn the place down you would..just because of your undying devotion to all things ALPA. So give the unity speech a rest, no ones buying it.

Wrong. ALPA needs all carriers to succeed in order for pattern bargaining to work, so even if my devotion was purely to ALPA, I would still want there to be unity at SWAPA so you could succeed in your section 6 talks.

 

[PCL_128]

You know ALPA told AT guys that "date of hire" would be worst case scenario.

ALPA never told anyone any such thing. To the contrary, ALPA told everyone that arbitration was unpredictable, and anything could happen.

Flash forward, ALPA tells AT guys that "they have a great case" etc....

ALPA never told anyone that we had a "great case." Some pilots believed that we did (I wasn't one of them), but ALPA never told them that we did. My understanding is that most people in the leadership felt that we were fighting an uphill battle, in fact.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Brit and PCL,

I have many friends at AirTran and most are thankful to be at SWA. They don't have pre-September 2010 amnesia. According to one guy at the time of the AAI acquisition (not merger) announcement AAI ALPA was in federal mediation, at an impasse and was seeking to get released from mediation to begin 60 day cooling off period. Almost unanimous strike vote had already taken place right? Then after the SWA announcement mediator would not release parties from mediation. And magically after 6 years of butting heads an agreement in principle is reached just days later. It was going to happen anyway PCL? Right?

We'll never know of course, but how about this scenario - Gary Kelly just decides to wait things out (like we all wish he would have). You guys take your 60 days off then strike thinking it will actually work like with Spirit. But according to Floy Ponder company had plans in place for liquidation of assets had pilots struck and rather than pay raise your strike might have led to unemployment. And then SWA just buys the parts they really want. Would have been much better for everyone at SWA.

You guys honestly believe AirTran was a good place to work pre Sep 2010? And you really think the acquisition had nothing to do with your current contract on which you base you future career expectation arguments? Right

 

[PCL_128]

Benjamin Dover, I can assure you that a strike was not in the cards, and neither was a release from mediation. The deal was merely days of bargaining away. The merger announcement only served to destroy our leverage and force us to settle for lower pay than we would have received.

As far as Gary having anything to do with us getting our contract, you're accusing him of something that is a federal offense. Might want to think twice about that.