AirTran DRC - judgement !

[vixin]

Oh my GOD PCL we agree on something. Not sure what union those other guys belong to but SWAPA is weak. GK and MVDV don't give a rats behind about the employees. Believe me there are a few here that see this. Unfortunately SWA does a good job at hiring those that fall in line and cheerlead. Our union does not stand up for the pilots and gives away every bit of leverage we have to be nice with GK. They are a joke. It is sad that they NEVER learn their lesson. Just look at our 19-0 club idiots. Willing to fast stamp anything GK wanted and get nothing in return.

 

[shootr]

I'm loathe to say this, but PCL gets it. Too many of our current SWA pilots do not, but as the old cadre is starting to disappear, we are STARTING to begin to get it as a group. We ARE a legacy carrier, management does not luv us, and we will declare CH 11 sometime in our future careers. Simple as that. The sooner we get that through our thick skulls, the sooner we'll act like a union and protect ourselves.

 

[SWA/FO]

Wow. I actually agree with PCL on his last two posts. You nailed it!!

I have to agree.

 

[waveflyer]

Shootr- that's hyperbolic BS -
How many airlines have you worked for?
In any case your glasses you see the world in are tinted negative-
Doesn't make for a happy pilot- which is why I chose the place.
As for AT- don't pretend like you weren't pointing the gun as well- like many said, PCL gets negotiations- air tran had a smaller gun, but you were pointing it threatening to do your best to ruin the culture if you didn't get your way (relative) - many of you still are posing those threats-
At the end of the day none of us got what we thought we deserved and we all have our case- but I don't believe in carrying grudges on from negotiations- bc we have another negotiation in process right now and I just won't give my soul to my industry. Collective bargaining is what it is-
Move on, fly well, live well

 

[shootr]

Wave,

I chose SWA for the same reasons you did. Oh, and I'm actually a fairly happy/go lucky kind of a guy. I'm naturally uptight but know it and don't let the small stuff bug me much, anymore. I don't actually bitch that much and I don't vote no on everything. But I am realistic.

If you think anything I said in my prior post is not dead on accurate or at least reasonably true, you're living with blinders on. Our management will furlough you in a heartbeat if they think it'll help them get a higher bonus. The time just hasn't come, yet. Wake up man.

 

[waveflyer]

I'm awake, actually know these guys and you're full of it.
They had their chance to furlough in 2009 and didn't, and it would've saved them money.
They believe they purchased some pilot loyalty. They wrong?
Ever work at a legacy? Bc I have and we aren't there yet. It's that simple. We have an accountant for a CEO and all the "personality" and risk aversion that goes with it- but he has protected our wages and our jobs so far in not a great time-
I wish he was a more charismatic leader- I do- I have criticism - but to say we're a legacy just isn't accurate
We're laying the foundation for something a lot bigger and it requires a lot of work which leads to stagnation while resources are directed that way-
Check the mission statement that changed this year- "world's most loved, most flown carrier"

Key word there- as pilots it's frustrating bc we can't do much to lay that groundwork except be good and efficient and don't fight the changes so much when international stuff comes up- the rest isn't in our hands, but relax- we're getting to that 15% Wall Street is liking us again after a decade and there's a reason for that

 

[PCL_128]

Yup. Ahh, the good ol' days.

What's SK up to these days? Can't exactly picture him in retirement . . . not exactly the "On Golden Pond" type. :laugh:

You'd be surprised. Lots of fishing and spending time with the grandkids. It's a bit disturbing, actually.

 

[Nindiri]

I wanted to strike just to piss off SK. Oh well, perhaps here at SWA.

 

[Ty Webb]

You'd be surprised. Lots of fishing and spending time with the grandkids.

Yeah, but for bait, he uses the livers and spleens of terminated pilots.

:laugh:

 

[redflyer65]

Now that was funny Ty!

But kinda sad at the same time. Glad he's gone.

 

[PCL_128]

But kinda sad at the same time. Glad he's gone.

I'd take him over GK or VdV any day of the week.

 

[SWA717]

The thing I appreciated about SK is you knew what you were getting when he walked in the room. You knew he was going to walk in and hit you upside your head with a 2 by 4. With SK, you didn't get a smile and a handshake and then when you were not looking a sucker punch.

 

[K-Mart]

Kolski was a Lorenzo guy. I'll take SWA management any day. Seriously you guys need to take a little ownership for your deal. Kolski......holy sh!f you can have him batman!

As far as what you were getting, what was it. No contract and terminated pilots to get used as hostages? You don't think he he ever said one thing and then did another? That guy is a scab lover Lorenzo trenchman.

 

[redflyer65]

Yea, I've never seen anything that harsh on the Southwest side. Wasn't a guy fired for dropping his family off at a rally while he happened to be in uniform?

 

[waveflyer]

That's just minion PCL still doing his worst to poison the well and avoid his responsibility in how it went down
True colors always show- just takes time

 

[-9Capt]

That's just minion PCL still doing his worst to poison the well and avoid his responsibility in how it went down
True colors always show- just takes time

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd realize that just the opposite was true...whatever

The AirTran pilots did this to themselves, with a lot of help from the MC. We got the integration we deserve. Spineless people don't deserve much.

 

[K-Mart]

Frank Lorenzo and Steve Kolski

COLLECTIONS
Lorenzo Gets One More Try At His East Coast Airline
By ADAM BRYANT
Published: October 08, 1993
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Frank A. Lorenzo's on-again, off-again effort to start a low-cost airline on the East Coast is on again.

The former chairman of Continental Airlines and Texas Air, who has stirred up controversy throughout his career as owner and executive, will get another chance to make his case before an administrative law judge, who ruled a month ago that Mr. Lorenzo lacked the "proper compliance disposition" to start an airline.

The Transportation Department, which picked Judge Robert L. Barton Jr. to hear Mr. Lorenzo's arguments and decided yesterday to reopen the case, said too many issues had not been adequately developed when Judge Barton made his decision.

Those issues, the department wrote, included "the managerial competence of key officers and the relevance of past safety violations of carriers operated by ATX principals." ATX is the name of the Houston-based company that wants to start the new carrier; Mr. Lorenzo is a principal investor in it.

Judge Barton must make his decision by Dec. 28, but it will not be final. The Transportation Department will have 90 days in which it could overrule or agree with him. If it ultimately decides against Mr. Lorenzo, he could take his case to the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia.






Mr. Lorenzo's current effort is under tight scrutiny. Labor groups including the Air Line Pilots Association and the International Association of Machinists, which blame him for the demise of Eastern Airlines and other failures, have waged a public relations campaign against him this year in Washington, and have pledged to picket ATX's operations if the carrier ever flies. About 150 members of Congress have written to the Transportation Department, urging it to deny Mr. Lorenzo's application.

The application presents something of a quandary for the Clinton Administration, which wants the support of labor groups but also wants to help businesses create jobs.

Reactions to the Transportation Department's decision were predictable. "We're pleased that the interests of consumers prevailed over a few airline unions whose opposition has brought about the unusual processing of our application," said Steve Kolski, president of ATX.

The pilots association said it understood the department's need for a full record, and was looking forward to presenting its case that Mr. Lorenzo could not establish that he and his managers had sufficient management expertise to run an airline.

Judge Barton rejected the application on Sept. 8 partly because of the courtroom demeanor of Mr. Lorenzo and his lawyers. In a 63-page decision, he denounced their "pattern and practice of disobeying orders and filing frivolous and vexatious pleadings," adding, "If this is how the applicant and its personnel behave in a fitness proceeding, when they are seeking a certificate from the department, and when one could reasonably expect them to be on their best behavior, how will they behave once they have a certificate?"

Mr. Lorenzo's plan calls for an airline to fly trips of no more than two hours along the East Coast, charging fares low enough to draw passengers out of their cars and from trains. Its employees would not be unionized, but would have a stake in the company, Mr. Lorenzo said in an earlier interview. He has also said that he would be a director of the carrier, but not be involved in its daily operations.

Investors include John F. Akers, the former I.B.M. chairman.

 

[-9Capt]

Kolski has been screwing pilots longer than the most senior United Airlines flight attendant. He got his start working for Lorenzo at New York Air. His buddy Joe Leonard hired him to work at AirTran. Joe was no angel either.



March 8, 1999|By Julie Carr Smyth of The Sentinel Staff

Joe Leonard, the new head of Orlando's financially struggling AirTran Holdings Inc., has never shied away from tough assignments.

But So Far, The Man Described As The Heavy At Other Airlines Is Taking A More Low-key Approach To Turning Around Troubled Airtran.

One of the many tales told about his 30-year aviation career - which includes stints at American, Northwest and the sinking Eastern Airlines - involves Leonard grabbing a fellow executive by the lapels during a company crisis and screaming expletives in his face.

At the direction of some of aviation's most noted cost-cutters - Northwest's Donald Nyrop, Eastern's Frank Borman and industry pariah Frank Lorenzo - Leonard took on fellow executives, unions, even federal agents.

``To me, it's ancient history,'' said Leonard, a burly, mild-mannered man of 55, who has spent the past nine years in comparatively bland customer-service roles at Northwest and, most recently, aerospace giant AlliedSignal.

``What I am today,'' Leonard said, ``is an accumulation of what I've learned.''

But employees at AirTran remember.

When Leonard was named in January to succeed Chief Executive Officer D. Joseph Corr, the self-described ``turnaround specialist'' charged with bringing AirTran out of its post-ValuJet troubles, word spread fast.

Leonard has been described in books and other accounts as the heavy for Borman and Lorenzo at Eastern, the man who grabbed signed union contracts out of people's vest pockets and who rebuffed union workers by repeatedly postponing meetings that might have improved relations.

``He came on board as a brand-new guy, a staff vice president [for operations), and immediately was very aggressive about Eastern needing to cut pay,'' said Charlie Bryan, who headed Eastern's aggressive machinists union before the airline disappeared into bankruptcy. ``I would say he was very much inclined to be autocratic.''

It was in the hostile environment of Eastern's final days, Leonard says, that he was given the unfortunate nickname of ``Forklift Joe'' - a moniker that has long circulated among aviation professionals.

Those who use it claim Leonard was responsible, while he oversaw American Airlines' maintenance shop, for implementing a policy of using forklifts in the delicate maneuver of aircraft engine replacement.

``It's 100 percent fabricated and inaccurate,'' said Leonard. ``It came from people who were trying to disparage my reputation.''

Leonard was president of Eastern when Borman sold to Lorenzo, whose aggressive tactics engendered hatred in Eastern's ranks and ultimately failed the company as well.

Leonard said he hopes for better union relations at AirTran, where organized pilots, flight attendants and mechanics all have long-term contracts in place. He said he plans no significant job cuts.

``I'm really impressed with the work force here,'' he said. ``They're really energized.''

At the same time, Leonard doesn't deny being eager to cut costs. AirTran has posted losses for nine of the past 10 quarters and the comfortable $175 million cash reserve Corr inherited now stands at just $25 million.



Leonard said Corr succeeded in stabilizing AirTran, which merged in 1997 with the troubled ValuJet and began a push to distance the airline from events surrounding its 1996 crash in the Everglades.

``He rebuilt it, he recertified it, and he reconditioned it,'' Leonard said of Corr's tenure. ``I think he did what he came here to do.''

As soon as he arrived in his sunny corner office at Orlando International Airport, Leonard said that as a way to start cutting costs he ``whacked [projected) revenues down arbitrarily'' and adjusted the company's expenses to match.

His decisions included opting not to install expensive noise-reducing equipment on five of AirTran's 40 DC-9 jets, effectively grounding the aircraft unless passenger demand continues to improve. The FAA has mandated the installation of so-called ``hush kits'' on all commercial aircraft by the end of 1999.

Leonard said he has watched other executives make similar tough choices and succeed in strengthening their financial positions. In fact, he lists Northwest's pugnacious and penny-pinching Nyrop among his mentors.

After a three-year stint at Boeing Corp. following his graduation from Auburn University in 1967, Leonard spent 13 years with Northwest under Nyrop's guidance - first as an engineer and then as maintenance manager. He returned to Northwest as vice president of customer service in 1990, when Eastern's demise was imminent.

``He [Nyrop) pursued cost [cutting) with religious zeal,'' Leonard said. ``We were one of the few airlines at that time who believed we were in the business to make money as opposed to simply providing public transportation.''

Leonard said he also admires AlliedSignal's Lawrence Bossidy, the former vice chairman of General Electric Co. who is credited with Allied's startling reversal of fortunes in the early 1990s.

Bossidy was dubbed a Wall Street hero at the time, after he eliminated about 6,000 jobs, consolidated operations and found ways to increase productivity. Leonard ran Allied's aerospace marketing division from 1993 to 1998.

Leonard says there will be more to his reign at AirTran than the harsh reality of the bottom line.

``I bring a belief in people,'' he said. ``I believe in a flat organization where people are allowed to make their own decisions.''




He said he thinks a small carrier such as AirTran can succeed by being more nimble than its competitors and by excelling at customer service.

To that end, he will institute customer-relations training for flight attendants and gate agents and will encourage friendliness and a light-hearted atmosphere. He has also hired the same advertising agency that fellow low-fare carrier Southwest Airlines uses, and plans an image campaign ``that pokes a little fun at ourselves.''

And as a gesture to his new staff, Leonard recently instituted casual Fridays at company headquarters in Orlando.

``I was told I'd be a hero,'' he said. ``That lasted about half an hour.''

 

[canyonblue]

He returned to Northwest as vice president of customer service in 1990, when Eastern's demise was imminent.

And was kicked to the curb when the employees took concessions in 1993. I was told by a pilot who was involved with the union that one of their backroom demands was that Forklift Joe hit the street, he was gone quick.

 

[PCL_128]

You don't think he he ever said one thing and then did another?

Not that I can remember. He was a hard negotiator, and he certainly used old-school tactics, but when you had a deal with him, you had a deal. If he was going to screw you over, he just told you to your face that he was going to screw you over. No bait-and-switch. The same wasn't true of other AirTran managers, who definitely changed their "interpretation" after the fact, but not with SK.