3 year duration on the contract? I'm not so sure that's a great idea. 3 years will put us at the beginning of the next downturn in the industry. Just a thought.
A lot of that is great, with one notable exception. Reserve pay. Giving up our current way of paying trips for reserves will be up to a 25% pay cut for the Captains who are going to be on reserve for the next 2-3 YEARS.
Gotta disagree with the last one. J.A. and DL drafts are company tools to staff the airline. They're not using them in an unacceptable manner - I came from a company that DID use them unacceptably, so I know a bit about it.
I have no problem with a Doctor's note requirement, as long as the company pays for the visit TO THE DOCTOR OF MY CHOICE and lets me know within 24 hours of my sick call that they are requesting this. If I'm sick, I'm calling in sick. If they want me to see a doctor about it, that's fine, too. Asking for a doctor's note 5 days later is pretty stupid.
SunkingQuote:
Originally Posted by Frequency
They (SWA) also made $587 Million last year, Airtran made around $30 Million. Thats a big difference. Your not quite there yet.
I think you missed -9CAPT's point.
Which was airlines don't fail solely because of pilot compensation. If that was the case then vanguard and the likes should have made it because of low paid pilots. SWA pays the pilot group well and still succeeds in the industry.
I think you've both missed the point.
You state:
We, the pilots, on the other hand have absolutely no idea how to behave during contract negotiations, absolutely none. We have guys picking up all the opentime they can, captains flying as FO's, pilots flying aircraft with known mechanical defects to mx bases before writing them up, asking ATC for shortcuts, calling for catering/cleaning/gates, not using the APU, the list goes on. We can't even get a quarter of the pilot group to wear a stupid friggin' union pin or put tag their bag for Christ sake!!
But I was hired for a professional pilot position. It is my job to fly as safely, efficiently, and professionally as possible. I knew the contract and pay when I got hired, and I was glad to be hired. Have you ever tried to figure out why you are in a minority (of bag taggers), but we still carried the presidential elections to keep the negotiation equitible? Well maybe there are people that want representation as a professional group with reasonable demands, and not a group that thinks turning off your logo light is an effective negotiating technique. You list goes on, of normally expected duties of professional pilots doing there job, and you want to just sit there and do nothing but the minimal amount of work.
IF flying just my line is the minimal amount of work, sign me up too. There's no war zone in ATL , Iceman, (hoo-rah) so if ya wanna ta fly x-tra to help out go fer it.
If you look back at SWA pre 9/11 they weren't the highest paid group, they were the ones working their butts off, doing the right thing because it was the right thing to do. What did it get them, well they are now the industry leader in pay and QOL. Their company takes care of them and they do the same for the company.
They are the industry leader because of forward-looking management and insightful leadership, plain and simple. The pilots, while hard working, didn't design their business model, implement their fuel hedges, select one fleet type, select their bases/routes/compensation. Stick with me Vern, I hope it makes a little more sense now.
If you think AirTran can compete without a lower CASM then the legacies I think you are mistaken. It doesn't mean we need to be the lowest paid, but please don't repeat history and ask for United plus 1.
If maintaining a lower CASM means taking it out of the pilots arse, perhaps Airtran's model needs a little tooling. Didn't their exec's just take a 8 million bonus a year or two ago? How did that affect their CASM? Oh, you were probably still honking on the Government titty then and didn't hear about that one.
I know, you are probably saying what a koolaide drinking A-hole. But you are wrong. I'm just a guy that has enough self respect and integrity not to short change the company I work for. You sound proud of your accomplishments of not taking short-cuts to save fuel, calling for catering, and as you so proudly stated "the list goes on."
Don't short change your company. You pull 100% every day, until the time comes to withold your services. Displaying a bag tag and supporting your union lets the company know you will do just that. It's the exec's job to try and get you to work for the absolute minimum, it's your union's job to try and get you the most they can. Is there any part of this you don't understand?
If you want professional pilots following your lead maybe you need to have something worth following.
More pay, QOL, Bennies??? Reread the above post.Not everyone has your military retirement and bennies.
I agree, when the company violates the contract, it needs to be seriously and firmly addressed through our union representatives.
Agreed. That's why supporting the union is important. (Bag tag's, etc)
AirTran won't fail solely because of pilot pay. It will fail if you get the following of people want who are willing to only do the minimum amount of work. The long term effect on the customer is something you can't change once we get a contract. What it will take to change a $15 million annual profit into a loss, is just what your work ethics could do.
Airtran will fail if management does not realize their people are assets, not liabilities. Happy employees are productive, plain and simple. Take a management class sometime.
Do I want improved QOL and pay ---YES. Do I think doing the minimum amount of work is the way to get it---NO. Why is it so hard for people to understand SWA pilots just didn't one day say we want more $ and the company just gave it to them. It took years and ALL the pilots working harder than the next guy and making the company profitable.
Well using this theory, Mesa will rule the world soon, cause their pilots work like sled dogs, and the pay ain't quite up to Southwest's level. I guess you think they should take a pay cut to lower their CASM?
You guys post on here so much, I thinked you've actually started to convince yourself you are making sense. The work rules are in place for the same reason most of the rule exist today. 99% of the rules are made to cover up the lack of work of 1% of the workforce. Hope you sleep good at night using your emergency sick time for SAP3, because you get it back twice as fast. There is that 1% that will probably cost the rest of us our emergency sick time. Ask yourself that integrity question and keep wondering why more professional guys aren't following your lead.
Ya can lead a mule to water, but ya can't make him drink.
Sorry for the rant
Either way you slice it, they need to pay back the loss of COLA for the time this has been dragged out. They can call it back-pay, signing bonus, whatever, but it needs to get paid. Otherwise you just worked for 2 years with no raise (your longevity raise became a COLA raise and ONLY kept you at the same relative spending level of your income).
If it is, vote NO. They did it last contract, no reason it can't be done again.
BINGO!
Well-said.
Yes, and Yes, and No, give me a f'ing break. The son/daugher comparison is ludicrous. This isn't an emotional argument, it's a business argument in cost and relative responsibility.
