AirTran contract, must haves

[-9Capt]

It looks like we might be seeing a completed TA in the next month or two. I think it's vital to know what is important to you before the document comes out so you can ask specific questions during the roadshows. The NC will certainly be in favor of it, and will most likely be handing out rose colored glasses and try to blow sunshine up your a$$.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here but...Let's see:

Scope/General:
*Bind AirTran Holdings, with out that, nothing else matters. Better buyout/merger/fragmentation language.
*3year duration

Compensation:
*Without getting into specific numbers, big boost to years 1-6, moderate boost years 7-12 and a 12yr FO pay scale.
*Holiday pay premium
*Double time for all involuntary flying (reassign and all drafts)
*5hr daily minimum
*75hr guarantee for lineholders, 78hr for reserves in exchange for more industry standard reserve pay rules.
*No guarantee reduction for loss of touching trips during vacation period or CDO integration.
*Training events pay greater of missed trips or 5hrs/day.
*28hrs per week of vacation, max out at 5 weeks/yr
*Keep the LVI protections, believe me this is huge, anyone who worked here before we got this can tell you what the scheduled used to be like.

Scheduling:
*Do away with Section 5 sub-sections (general, planning, daily ops) this has been the single greatest grievance generating factor in the current contract.
*Opentime remains available until picked up or 48hrs prior to report time.
*If any company duty is properly placed on your schedule (training, trips, rsv) it is paid in full if removed involuntarily by the company.
*Online access to view true reserve coverage on any given day.
*No resv. on buildup lines, trips only, all CDO's or all regular trips, no mixing.
*No ready reserve.
*Ability to view your number for callout while sitting reserve, online access.
*Mandatory Long Call Reserve
*No changing of reserve availability periods, ever.
*Omit requirement for a resv to call sched after a trip.
*Fix SAP, allow a pilot to drop below 75hrs during SAP.
*Keep the current 12hr duty day.
*Monthly limitations on re-assignments, just like we have with DL drafts.
*Remove "extraordinary personal hardship" requirement to decline Re-assign, DL draft, JA.

Sick/LTD/OJI/Hotels/Grievance/Retirement etc:
*Increase sick time accrual to at least 5hrs/month
*Remove $5000 monthly cap on LTD.
*Remove requirement for company requested Dr note
*Remove 6 month employment requirement to use sick time.
*Remove 70hr cap on OJI benefit.
*Better quality layover hotels, list certain brands as "unacceptable"
*Optional group policy for Loss of License insurance.
*Speed up the grievance process, omit requirement for union to re-submit grievance to CPO (redundant/unnecessary), more system board meetings.
*Increase B-fund contributions 1% per year.
*Lower the insurance costs.

 

[Ridgeback]

WOW, that might be the best contract ever....GOOD LUCK

 

[-9Capt]

WOW, that might be the best contract ever....GOOD LUCK

Not even close.

Let me guess, you got into this business after 9/11/01?

 

[Lowrider717]

add...

Eliminate $25 JS fee, & Reciprocal unlimited for all.

 

[Heilborn1]

Where's the demand for the dropped j/s charges that many stated were a must have?

 

[NuGuy]

.....

 

[FIREMAN]

It looks like we might be seeing a completed TA in the next month or two. I think it's vital to know what is important to you before the document comes out so you can ask specific questions during the roadshows. The NC will certainly be in favor of it, and will most likely be handing out rose colored glasses and try to blow sunshine up your a$$.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here but...Let's see:

Scope/General:
*Bind AirTran Holdings, with out that, nothing else matters. Better buyout/merger/fragmentation language.
*3year duration

Compensation:
*Without getting into specific numbers, big boost to years 1-6, moderate boost years 7-12 and a 12yr FO pay scale.
*Holiday pay premium
*Double time for all involuntary flying (reassign and all drafts)
*5hr daily minimum
*75hr guarantee for lineholders, 78hr for reserves in exchange for more industry standard reserve pay rules.
*No guarantee reduction for loss of touching trips during vacation period or CDO integration.
*Training events pay greater of missed trips or 5hrs/day.
*28hrs per week of vacation, max out at 5 weeks/yr
*Keep the LVI protections, believe me this is huge, anyone who worked here before we got this can tell you what the scheduled used to be like.

Scheduling:
*Do away with Section 5 sub-sections (general, planning, daily ops) this has been the single greatest grievance generating factor in the current contract.
*Opentime remains available until picked up or 48hrs prior to report time.
*If any company duty is properly placed on your schedule (training, trips, rsv) it is paid in full if removed involuntarily by the company.
*Online access to view true reserve coverage on any given day.
*No resv. on buildup lines, trips only, all CDO's or all regular trips, no mixing.
*No ready reserve.
*Ability to view your number for callout while sitting reserve, online access.
*Mandatory Long Call Reserve
*No changing of reserve availability periods, ever.
*Omit requirement for a resv to call sched after a trip.
*Fix SAP, allow a pilot to drop below 75hrs during SAP.
*Keep the current 12hr duty day.
*Monthly limitations on re-assignments, just like we have with DL drafts.
*Remove "extraordinary personal hardship" requirement to decline Re-assign, DL draft, JA.

Sick/LTD/OJI/Hotels/Grievance/Retirement etc:
*Increase sick time accrual to at least 5hrs/month
*Remove $5000 monthly cap on LTD.
*Remove requirement for company requested Dr note
*Remove 6 month employment requirement to use sick time.
*Remove 70hr cap on OJI benefit.
*Better quality layover hotels, list certain brands as "unacceptable"
*Optional group policy for Loss of License insurance.
*Speed up the grievance process, omit requirement for union to re-submit grievance to CPO (redundant/unnecessary), more system board meetings.
*Increase B-fund contributions 1% per year.
*Lower the insurance costs.

How many airlines have you gone through? How many more do you want to go through befor you retire?

 

[Lowrider717]

How many airlines have you gone through? How many more do you want to go through befor you retire?

Another kool aid drinker.

The NPA's initial proposal was more than reasonable.

 

[-9Capt]

How many airlines have you gone through? How many more do you want to go through befor you retire?

Answer to question #1...1
Answer to question#2....0

_________________________________________________

My questions to you flame thrower...

#1. If pilot salaries/compensation determine the financial strength and vitality of an airline, as you alluded to, why are Midway, Vanguard, National, Western Pacific and Independence not still around?

#2. Who is the highest paying/best compensated passenger airline in the US? (hint, they're also the most profitable, never furloughed, been around for decades, continue to expand, and they paint their airplanes brown and orange).

#3. Aren't you the same guy who said "looks like another 2 years without a contract" when it was announced that AP won the last presidential election?

I can answer #3 for you...yes, you did ...You were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

Give it a rest firebug, if you're happy being a bottom feeder, please go somewhere else.

 

[FIREMAN]

Answer to question #1...1
Answer to question#2....0

_________________________________________________

My questions to you flame thrower...

#1. If pilot salaries/compensation determine the financial strength and vitality of an airline, as you alluded to, why are Midway, Vanguard, National, Western Pacific and Independence not still around?

#2. Who is the highest paying/best compensated passenger airline in the US? (hint, they're also the most profitable, never furloughed, been around for decades, continue to expand, and they paint their airplanes brown and orange).

#3. Aren't you the same guy who said "looks like another 2 years without a contract" when it was announced that AP won the last presidential election?

I can answer #3 for you...yes, you did ...You were wrong then, and you're wrong now.

Give it a rest firebug, if you're happy being a bottom feeder, please go somewhere else.

Do you really think AP or anyone at the NPA had anything to do with the company starting to negoiate? Or, was it the fuel hedges and great bookings and increased fares?

 

[Frequency]

#2. Who is the highest paying/best compensated passenger airline in the US? (hint, they're also the most profitable, never furloughed, been around for decades, continue to expand, and they paint their airplanes brown and orange).

They (SWA) also made $587 Million last year, Airtran made around $30 Million. Thats a big difference. Your not quite there yet.

 

[-9Capt]

Jeez, you like to ask a lot of questions.

The union can only exert so much pressure. They did an OK in the form of press releases and the like, the rest is up to us.

We, the pilots, on the other hand have absolutely no idea how to behave during contract negotiations, absolutely none. We have guys picking up all the opentime they can, captains flying as FO's, pilots flying aircraft with known mechanical defects to mx bases before writing them up, asking ATC for shortcuts, calling for catering/cleaning/gates, not using the APU, the list goes on. We can't even get a quarter of the pilot group to wear a stupid friggin' union pin or put tag their bag for Christ sake!!

We have no one to blame for this drawn out negotiations but ourselves. We, as a group, are to blame, certainly not your union. They've been begging for our help for 2 years now.

Oh wait, what was your question? Do I think the union had anything to do with the companys willingness to negotiate? was that it?

Here's what I think, correct me if I'm wrong. The company was waiting to see who would win the last presidential election. When they found out their candidate lost, the began engaging in meaningful negotiations almost immediately.

So no, I don't blame the union for the slow pace of negotiations, I blame the pilot group. If I was JL, I'd have done the same thing.

 

[-9Capt]

They (SWA) also made $587 Million last year, Airtran made around $30 Million. Thats a big difference. Your not quite there yet.

That only helps to prove my point, thanks.

 

[Sunking]

They (SWA) also made $587 Million last year, Airtran made around $30 Million. Thats a big difference. Your not quite there yet.

I think you missed -9CAPT's point.
Which was airlines don't fail solely because of pilot compensation. If that was the case then vanguard and the likes should have made it because of low paid pilots. SWA pays the pilot group well and still succeeds in the industry.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

They've been begging for our help for 2 years now.

BS. They don't need help. Else they would return phone calls/emails when someone repeatedly volunteers to help. I wouldn't lift a finger for these guys.

 

[AFcitrus]

-9Capt,

I agree with all of your contract requirements plus a 3 year cost of living payback (not just a signing bonus).

Let's just hope our NC has had the ability to get these things into the TA. Something tells me this is going to be a very weak TA for the pilots.

I'm hearing nasty rumors about eliminating the emergency sick bank and
the reserves taking a step backwards in pay and QOL instead of hundreds of steps forward.

For some reason the company wants a TA before May (maybe MEI shareholder meeting, our shareholder meeting, etc). Who knows? The fact is the "ball is in our court" and now is the time to slam dunk it. We've waited for two years for the company to have some incentive to have meaningful negotiations and now it appears the time has come.

Let's just hope our NC hasn't sold us all out for some fringe benifits they'll receive if they get a signed TA by May. Remember that little "koom-by-yaw" pow-pow the BOD, NC and Company had for dinner a few weeks back. After that is when the pace of TA'd sections really picked up. Would love to have been a "fly on the wall" at that dinner.

Cheers,

 

[SkiFishFly]

... Do I think the union had anything to do with the companys willingness to negotiate? was that it?

Here's what I think, correct me if I'm wrong. The company was waiting to see who would win the last presidential election. When they found out their candidate lost, the began engaging in meaningful negotiations almost immediately.

So no, I don't blame the union for the slow pace of negotiations, I blame the pilot group. If I was JL, I'd have done the same thing.

I think there is something else going on here. The company got the 2 year extension they wanted for one thing. They decided that they need this contract settled for some other reason - possibly something to do with the Midwest deal or perhaps there is something else us mushrooms don't know. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I like your list however I do not expect we will see anything close to that.

 

[-9Capt]

BS. They don't need help. Else they would return phone calls/emails when someone repeatedly volunteers to help..

Not exactly the type of "help" I was referring to, but being that you brought it up...anyone who wants to volunteer should contact the respective committee chairperson directly, email addresses follow every e-weekly update and are on the website.

 

[Lifter]

Enough is enough

Jeez, you like to ask a lot of questions.

The union can only exert so much pressure. They did an OK in the form of press releases and the like, the rest is up to us.

We, the pilots, on the other hand have absolutely no idea how to behave during contract negotiations, absolutely none. We have guys picking up all the opentime they can, captains flying as FO's, pilots flying aircraft with known mechanical defects to mx bases before writing them up, asking ATC for shortcuts, calling for catering/cleaning/gates, not using the APU, the list goes on. We can't even get a quarter of the pilot group to wear a stupid friggin' union pin or put tag their bag for Christ sake!!

We have no one to blame for this drawn out negotiations but ourselves. We, as a group, are to blame, certainly not your union. They've been begging for our help for 2 years now.

Oh wait, what was your question? Do I think the union had anything to do with the company's willingness to negotiate? was that it?

Here's what I think, correct me if I'm wrong. The company was waiting to see who would win the last presidential election. When they found out their candidate lost, the began engaging in meaningful negotiations almost immediately.

So no, I don't blame the union for the slow pace of negotiations, I blame the pilot group. If I was JL, I'd have done the same thing.

SunkingQuote:
Originally Posted by Frequency
They (SWA) also made $587 Million last year, Airtran made around $30 Million. Thats a big difference. Your not quite there yet.

I think you missed -9CAPT's point.
Which was airlines don't fail solely because of pilot compensation. If that was the case then vanguard and the likes should have made it because of low paid pilots. SWA pays the pilot group well and still succeeds in the industry.


I think you've both missed the point.

You state:
We, the pilots, on the other hand have absolutely no idea how to behave during contract negotiations, absolutely none. We have guys picking up all the opentime they can, captains flying as FO's, pilots flying aircraft with known mechanical defects to mx bases before writing them up, asking ATC for shortcuts, calling for catering/cleaning/gates, not using the APU, the list goes on. We can't even get a quarter of the pilot group to wear a stupid friggin' union pin or put tag their bag for Christ sake!!

But I was hired for a professional pilot position. It is my job to fly as safely, efficiently, and professionally as possible. I knew the contract and pay when I got hired, and I was glad to be hired. Have you ever tried to figure out why you are in a minority (of bag taggers), but we still carried the presidential elections to keep the negotiation equitible? Well maybe there are people that want representation as a professional group with reasonable demands, and not a group that thinks turning off your logo light is an effective negotiating technique. You list goes on, of normally expected duties of professional pilots doing there job, and you want to just sit there and do nothing but the minimal amount of work.

If you look back at SWA pre 9/11 they weren't the highest paid group, they were the ones working their butts off, doing the right thing because it was the right thing to do. What did it get them, well they are now the industry leader in pay and QOL. Their company takes care of them and they do the same for the company.

If you think AirTran can compete without a lower CASM then the legacies I think you are mistaken. It doesn't mean we need to be the lowest paid, but please don't repeat history and ask for United plus 1.

I know, you are probably saying what a koolaide drinking A-hole. But you are wrong. I'm just a guy that has enough self respect and integrity not to short change the company I work for. You sound proud of your accomplishments of not taking short-cuts to save fuel, calling for catering, and as you so proudly stated "the list goes on."

If you want professional pilots following your lead maybe you need to have something worth following.

I agree, when the company violates the contract, it needs to be seriously and firmly addressed through our union representatives.


AirTran won't fail solely because of pilot pay. It will fail if you get the following of people want who are willing to only do the minimum amount of work. The long term effect on the customer is something you can't change once we get a contract. What it will take to change a $15 million annual profit into a loss, is just what your work ethics could do.

Do I want improved QOL and pay ---YES. Do I think doing the minimum amount of work is the way to get it---NO. Why is it so hard for people to understand SWA pilots just didn't one day say we want more $ and the company just gave it to them. It took years and ALL the pilots working harder than the next guy and making the company profitable.

You guys post on here so much, I thinked you've actually started to convince yourself you are making sense. The work rules are in place for the same reason most of the rule exist today. 99% of the rules are made to cover up the lack of work of 1% of the workforce. Hope you sleep good at night using your emergency sick time for SAP3, because you get it back twice as fast. There is that 1% that will probably cost the rest of us our emergency sick time. Ask yourself that integrity question and keep wondering why more professional guys aren't following your lead.

Sorry for the rant

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

SunkingQuote:
Originally Posted by Frequency
They (SWA) also made $587 Million last year, Airtran made around $30 Million. Thats a big difference. Your not quite there yet.

I think you missed -9CAPT's point.
Which was airlines don't fail solely because of pilot compensation. If that was the case then vanguard and the likes should have made it because of low paid pilots. SWA pays the pilot group well and still succeeds in the industry.


I think you've both missed the point.

You state:
We, the pilots, on the other hand have absolutely no idea how to behave during contract negotiations, absolutely none. We have guys picking up all the opentime they can, captains flying as FO's, pilots flying aircraft with known mechanical defects to mx bases before writing them up, asking ATC for shortcuts, calling for catering/cleaning/gates, not using the APU, the list goes on. We can't even get a quarter of the pilot group to wear a stupid friggin' union pin or put tag their bag for Christ sake!!

But I was hired for a professional pilot position. It is my job to fly as safely, efficiently, and professionally as possible. I knew the contract and pay when I got hired, and I was glad to be hired. Have you ever tried to figure out why you are in a minority (of bag taggers), but we still carried the presidential elections to keep the negotiation equitible? Well maybe there are people that want representation as a professional group with reasonable demands, and not a group that thinks turning off your logo light is an effective negotiating technique. You list goes on, of normally expected duties of professional pilots doing there job, and you want to just sit there and do nothing but the minimal amount of work.

If you look back at SWA pre 9/11 they weren't the highest paid group, they were the ones working their butts off, doing the right thing because it was the right thing to do. What did it get them, well they are now the industry leader in pay and QOL. Their company takes care of them and they do the same for the company.

If you think AirTran can compete without a lower CASM then the legacies I think you are mistaken. It doesn't mean we need to be the lowest paid, but please don't repeat history and ask for United plus 1.

I know, you are probably saying what a koolaide drinking A-hole. But you are wrong. I'm just a guy that has enough self respect and integrity not to short change the company I work for. You sound proud of your accomplishments of not taking short-cuts to save fuel, calling for catering, and as you so proudly stated "the list goes on."

If you want professional pilots following your lead maybe you need to have something worth following.

I agree, when the company violates the contract, it needs to be seriously and firmly addressed through our union representatives.


AirTran won't fail solely because of pilot pay. It will fail if you get the following of people want who are willing to only do the minimum amount of work. The long term effect on the customer is something you can't change once we get a contract. What it will take to change a $15 million annual profit into a loss, is just what your work ethics could do.

Do I want improved QOL and pay ---YES. Do I think doing the minimum amount of work is the way to get it---NO. Why is it so hard for people to understand SWA pilots just didn't one day say we want more $ and the company just gave it to them. It took years and ALL the pilots working harder than the next guy and making the company profitable.

You guys post on here so much, I thinked you've actually started to convince yourself you are making sense. The work rules are in place for the same reason most of the rule exist today. 99% of the rules are made to cover up the lack of work of 1% of the workforce. Hope you sleep good at night using your emergency sick time for SAP3, because you get it back twice as fast. There is that 1% that will probably cost the rest of us our emergency sick time. Ask yourself that integrity question and keep wondering why more professional guys aren't following your lead.

Sorry for the rant

Well said. Thank you!:beer:

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Not exactly the type of "help" I was referring to, but being that you brought it up...anyone who wants to volunteer should contact the respective committee chairperson directly, email addresses follow every e-weekly update and are on the website.

I knew what you meant, but the BOD and NPA have to earn the respect of the pilot group in order to get the "help" that you refer to. I don't believe they have. FOr instance, the so-called polling on the age 60 issue.

 

[BR715]

Talked to a guy in the jetway today that said that scheduling had finally been ta'd. He also said that they gave up a ton of stuff to the company within that section. Hope this does not continue because it will only get shot down very quickly. I give this ta a one in five chance in making it through.

 

[-9Capt]

Sorry for the rant

No need to be sorry.

Let me explain something you're obviously not seeing. The railway labor act favors management tremendously and offers little incentive for them to ever negotiate in good faith. The only ace card we have is the threat of a strike, and management knows that will never happen, not here, not in the current climate.

So what are our options? You can stay on your moral high horse or you can do exactly what the AOM, FOM and contract require of you. Nobody is saying not to fly as safely as possible. Quite the contrary.

You say "I'm just a guy that has enough self respect and integrity not to short change the company I work for". At what point does it become not OK for the company to short change you? Do you like being strung along and taken advantage of?

My list is pretty far from being "normally expected duties of a professional pilot" Capts flying as FO's, overlooking known mechanical deficiencies? I do what's required of me, and as long as the company show contempt and disrespect of the pilot group, that will continue.

Remember this quote "Pilots like to think they're special people, they're not, their contribution to the success of AirTran is no greater than anyone else"-Steve Kolski. I'm supposed to go above and beyond after he said that in the press, are you kidding me?

You make repeated reference to doing "the minimum amount of work". Yes, during negotiations, and only during negotiations, I do the "minimum amount of work". I do everything required of me and nothing more. Once I have a completed TA, I'm as proactive as the next guy. When I feel like my good will is going unappreciated, I cease to go above the required duties.

BTW, I've never even come close to using my emergency sick bank, where the hell did you get that from?

 

[T3700]

I am as guilty as the next guy in reacting to rumors regarding our upcoming contract. I do think that the company is doing a great job setting FO's against Captains, commuters against non-commuters, ex-military against civilian, "I've got mine" against the new guys, etc. As long as we remain a fractured pilot group, management will continue to play us like a violin. I think I am going to sit back and keep my mouth shut until I actually see the completed TA. Then it will be time to get fired up and argue its merits and faults.

 

[HalinTexas]

Geez. That contract is almost as good as the one ATA had in 2002.

Good luck guys. Fight the good fight. It will be worth it.

 

[Lifter]

Remember this quote "Pilots like to think they're special people, they're not, their contribution to the success of AirTran is no greater than anyone else"-Steve Kolski. I'm supposed to go above and beyond after he said that in the press, are you kidding me?

A great example of another reason not to follow your lead. There are alot of people here keep referring to his comment. Have you ever been incharge of a large group of employees? Can you publically say that one group of employees is more important to the success of a company than another? That's like saying your daughter is more special than your son.

OK, Let's say Kolski or any manager says, pilots are more special to the success of AirTran than all of the other employees. Well ,now the FA are going to think they aren't special and the gate agents, then the baggage handlers. You see my point.

Anyone with any experience of managing diverse work-groups within one company or organization cannot show favoritism to one group.

Obviously, We (pilots) have the biggest responsiblity and a mistake on our part will have the biggest negative impact on the company, but our contribution to the success of AirTran isn't any more "special" than a gate agent, baggage handler, scheduler, mx personnal etc doing their job. If anyone doesn't do their job that impacts customer service or safety it will significantly impact AirTran's success.

Do you really need to have Kolski say you are special? We can't do our jobs without all of the support personnel and their contribution is just as special as ours, but we have the greatest responsibility hence better pay "not by allot" than the others.

Maybe you need to take a break from flight info. Go back two years and read your post to see if they have changed. Were you really this unhappy here 2 years ago? Was your contract that bad then? Or during this negotiation process has you attitude towards management changed?
Are you tired of management changing the rules. This whole negotiation process has been poorly executed, by both sides. This isn't the topic or place to voice who I think started the mistakes first and it doesn't really matter who did. -9 you are probably a great pilot and employee, and for years done an excellent job. Don't make a mistake during this negotiation like the one management has been making, by burning the good relationship bridge, we had years ago. They will need it in the future.

Keep our customers happy, and show them you'll go above and beyond. They will let you know you are special compared to other pilots. We'll need them in the future.

BTW
Sorry for the emergency sick reference, I just assumed (yes I know) that with your disaappointment w/management you would be one of those guys. Sorry

 

[Steeler Fan]

Where's the demand for the dropped j/s charges that many stated were a must have?

The demand is that this charge is a major obstacle for us getting unlimited recip J/S priviledges on SWA (for example). It goes right to making it easier for many of our pilots to get to work, without having to call in sick for the ENTIRE trip.

The easier the commute, the more rested these pilots will be. Plus, it helps our professional pilot group treat other pilot groups as professional as well.


*I also want every new-hire pilot to get health coverage effective immediately--Date of Hire, vs 1st of next month. *Part of establishing a better corporate culture here from day 1--Who knows? Maybe if we did a better job in this area, we wouldn't have all the attrition we do now. (Attrition happens, but when you lose more than you train, it makes everybody stop and wonder).

*One thing to remember is just because this thing gets TA'd quickly, that doesn't mean it'll be ratified by the membership.

There are groups that'll vote "NO" no matter what, and those that'll vote "YES" no matter what.

Those of us in the middle want to see a contract with significant language improvement that enables us to have a job for the long term, but a job worthy of having.


GO STEELERS!!!!

 

[SkiFishFly]

Talked to a guy in the jetway today that said that scheduling had finally been ta'd. He also said that they gave up a ton of stuff to the company within that section. Hope this does not continue because it will only get shot down very quickly. I give this ta a one in five chance in making it through.

Do you really think the NPA negotiating guys would TA a scheduling section that "gave up a ton of stuff"? Why would they do that?
I think there are just a whole bunch of rumors going around amongst the pilot group right now. Seems like it might be a real good time to just keep saying to yourself "I'll believe it when I see it in writing".

 

[SkiFishFly]

There are groups that'll vote "NO" no matter what, and those that'll vote "YES" no matter what.

Those of us in the middle want to see a contract with significant language improvement that enables us to have a job for the long term, but a job worthy of having.


GO STEELERS!!!!

Well said. I think this job is currently worth having - I would not have applied here if I didn't think that way. I definitely want a job for the long term as well.

 

[Lear70]

Scope/General:
*Bind AirTran Holdings, with out that, nothing else matters. Better buyout/merger/fragmentation language.
*3year duration

3 year duration on the contract? I'm not so sure that's a great idea. 3 years will put us at the beginning of the next downturn in the industry. Just a thought.

Second, I agree on Scope. Without this, it's an automatic NO vote from me, regardless of anything else. As long as they can buy another airline under Holdings and give all our future deliveries to that other company and stagnate OUR growth, our jobs are at risk.

This is a ZERO COST item to the company.

Compensation:
*Without getting into specific numbers, big boost to years 1-6, moderate boost years 7-12 and a 12yr FO pay scale.
*Holiday pay premium
*Double time for all involuntary flying (reassign and all drafts)
*5hr daily minimum
*75hr guarantee for lineholders, 78hr for reserves in exchange for more industry standard reserve pay rules.
*No guarantee reduction for loss of touching trips during vacation period or CDO integration.
*Training events pay greater of missed trips or 5hrs/day.
*28hrs per week of vacation, max out at 5 weeks/yr
*Keep the LVI protections, believe me this is huge, anyone who worked here before we got this can tell you what the scheduled used to be like.

A lot of that is great, with one notable exception. Reserve pay. Giving up our current way of paying trips for reserves will be up to a 25% pay cut for the Captains who are going to be on reserve for the next 2-3 YEARS.

I would like to be paid more as an F/O. I'm not willing to do it at the expense of a 25% pay cut for the CA's.

Scheduling:
*Do away with Section 5 sub-sections (general, planning, daily ops) this has been the single greatest grievance generating factor in the current contract.
*Opentime remains available until picked up or 48hrs prior to report time.
*If any company duty is properly placed on your schedule (training, trips, rsv) it is paid in full if removed involuntarily by the company.
*Online access to view true reserve coverage on any given day.
*No resv. on buildup lines, trips only, all CDO's or all regular trips, no mixing.
*No ready reserve.
*Ability to view your number for callout while sitting reserve, online access.
*Mandatory Long Call Reserve
*No changing of reserve availability periods, ever.
*Omit requirement for a resv to call sched after a trip.
*Fix SAP, allow a pilot to drop below 75hrs during SAP.
*Keep the current 12hr duty day.
*Monthly limitations on re-assignments, just like we have with DL drafts.
*Remove "extraordinary personal hardship" requirement to decline Re-assign, DL draft, JA.

Gotta disagree with the last one. J.A. and DL drafts are company tools to staff the airline. They're not using them in an unacceptable manner - I came from a company that DID use them unacceptably, so I know a bit about it.

I agree that clause is a little too management-oriented, but you have to leave the company SOME leeway during IrOps. Maybe put in a clause that specifically addresses under what circumstances a crewmember may refuse these assignments, such as family illness, family / childcare obligation, previous plans that are not deferrable / cancelable (vacation plans - even for short weekend getaways -, etc).

You're right about Subsections in 5, that's been the hardest part of the contract for me to figure out here, how they go back and forth between sections for their own interpretations. Just odd...

Take out the DL Draft / JA part of the above proposal, and these changes become ZERO COST to the company while DRASTICALLY improving the QOL for the pilot group.

Sick/LTD/OJI/Hotels/Grievance/Retirement etc:
*Increase sick time accrual to at least 5hrs/month
*Remove $5000 monthly cap on LTD.
*Remove requirement for company requested Dr note
*Remove 6 month employment requirement to use sick time.
*Remove 70hr cap on OJI benefit.
*Better quality layover hotels, list certain brands as "unacceptable"
*Optional group policy for Loss of License insurance.
*Speed up the grievance process, omit requirement for union to re-submit grievance to CPO (redundant/unnecessary), more system board meetings.
*Increase B-fund contributions 1% per year.
*Lower the insurance costs.

I have no problem with a Doctor's note requirement, as long as the company pays for the visit TO THE DOCTOR OF MY CHOICE and lets me know within 24 hours of my sick call that they are requesting this. If I'm sick, I'm calling in sick. If they want me to see a doctor about it, that's fine, too. Asking for a doctor's note 5 days later is pretty stupid.

I agree on removing the 6 month employment requirement, that's just assinine. So you're not supposed to get sick for half a year? Or just come to work anyway, even though it's an FAR violation to report to work unfit for duty.

Insurance costs MUST come down to something inline with industry-standard, which is roughly $100 a month for single coverage, $200 a month for family coverage for a PPO plan. Not the crap HMO plan that's out there. $400-700 a month for health insurance is RIDICULOUS and, for F/O's, represents 10-20% of your salary!!

Other than that, what you have is pretty good, and I'd sign it.

I don't believe it would cause an undue economic hardship on the company. In fact, I would be willing to bet our CASM after this agreement was in place would STILL be one of the lowest in the industry, INCLUDING the legacies and other LCC's.

No one wants to burn the house down, and just about everything above is pretty middle-of-the-pack in terms of compensation. It's pretty funny that some people think it's SUCH a HUGE increase - most of those items above are ZERO COST to the company.

Just goes to show you what some people can get used to...