AirTran contract, must haves

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Not exactly the type of "help" I was referring to, but being that you brought it up...anyone who wants to volunteer should contact the respective committee chairperson directly, email addresses follow every e-weekly update and are on the website.

I knew what you meant, but the BOD and NPA have to earn the respect of the pilot group in order to get the "help" that you refer to. I don't believe they have. FOr instance, the so-called polling on the age 60 issue.

 

[BR715]

Talked to a guy in the jetway today that said that scheduling had finally been ta'd. He also said that they gave up a ton of stuff to the company within that section. Hope this does not continue because it will only get shot down very quickly. I give this ta a one in five chance in making it through.

 

[-9Capt]

Sorry for the rant

No need to be sorry.

Let me explain something you're obviously not seeing. The railway labor act favors management tremendously and offers little incentive for them to ever negotiate in good faith. The only ace card we have is the threat of a strike, and management knows that will never happen, not here, not in the current climate.

So what are our options? You can stay on your moral high horse or you can do exactly what the AOM, FOM and contract require of you. Nobody is saying not to fly as safely as possible. Quite the contrary.

You say "I'm just a guy that has enough self respect and integrity not to short change the company I work for". At what point does it become not OK for the company to short change you? Do you like being strung along and taken advantage of?

My list is pretty far from being "normally expected duties of a professional pilot" Capts flying as FO's, overlooking known mechanical deficiencies? I do what's required of me, and as long as the company show contempt and disrespect of the pilot group, that will continue.

Remember this quote "Pilots like to think they're special people, they're not, their contribution to the success of AirTran is no greater than anyone else"-Steve Kolski. I'm supposed to go above and beyond after he said that in the press, are you kidding me?

You make repeated reference to doing "the minimum amount of work". Yes, during negotiations, and only during negotiations, I do the "minimum amount of work". I do everything required of me and nothing more. Once I have a completed TA, I'm as proactive as the next guy. When I feel like my good will is going unappreciated, I cease to go above the required duties.

BTW, I've never even come close to using my emergency sick bank, where the hell did you get that from?

 

[T3700]

I am as guilty as the next guy in reacting to rumors regarding our upcoming contract. I do think that the company is doing a great job setting FO's against Captains, commuters against non-commuters, ex-military against civilian, "I've got mine" against the new guys, etc. As long as we remain a fractured pilot group, management will continue to play us like a violin. I think I am going to sit back and keep my mouth shut until I actually see the completed TA. Then it will be time to get fired up and argue its merits and faults.

 

[HalinTexas]

Geez. That contract is almost as good as the one ATA had in 2002.

Good luck guys. Fight the good fight. It will be worth it.

 

[Lifter]

Remember this quote "Pilots like to think they're special people, they're not, their contribution to the success of AirTran is no greater than anyone else"-Steve Kolski. I'm supposed to go above and beyond after he said that in the press, are you kidding me?

A great example of another reason not to follow your lead. There are alot of people here keep referring to his comment. Have you ever been incharge of a large group of employees? Can you publically say that one group of employees is more important to the success of a company than another? That's like saying your daughter is more special than your son.

OK, Let's say Kolski or any manager says, pilots are more special to the success of AirTran than all of the other employees. Well ,now the FA are going to think they aren't special and the gate agents, then the baggage handlers. You see my point.

Anyone with any experience of managing diverse work-groups within one company or organization cannot show favoritism to one group.

Obviously, We (pilots) have the biggest responsiblity and a mistake on our part will have the biggest negative impact on the company, but our contribution to the success of AirTran isn't any more "special" than a gate agent, baggage handler, scheduler, mx personnal etc doing their job. If anyone doesn't do their job that impacts customer service or safety it will significantly impact AirTran's success.

Do you really need to have Kolski say you are special? We can't do our jobs without all of the support personnel and their contribution is just as special as ours, but we have the greatest responsibility hence better pay "not by allot" than the others.

Maybe you need to take a break from flight info. Go back two years and read your post to see if they have changed. Were you really this unhappy here 2 years ago? Was your contract that bad then? Or during this negotiation process has you attitude towards management changed?
Are you tired of management changing the rules. This whole negotiation process has been poorly executed, by both sides. This isn't the topic or place to voice who I think started the mistakes first and it doesn't really matter who did. -9 you are probably a great pilot and employee, and for years done an excellent job. Don't make a mistake during this negotiation like the one management has been making, by burning the good relationship bridge, we had years ago. They will need it in the future.

Keep our customers happy, and show them you'll go above and beyond. They will let you know you are special compared to other pilots. We'll need them in the future.

BTW
Sorry for the emergency sick reference, I just assumed (yes I know) that with your disaappointment w/management you would be one of those guys. Sorry

 

[Steeler Fan]

Where's the demand for the dropped j/s charges that many stated were a must have?

The demand is that this charge is a major obstacle for us getting unlimited recip J/S priviledges on SWA (for example). It goes right to making it easier for many of our pilots to get to work, without having to call in sick for the ENTIRE trip.

The easier the commute, the more rested these pilots will be. Plus, it helps our professional pilot group treat other pilot groups as professional as well.


*I also want every new-hire pilot to get health coverage effective immediately--Date of Hire, vs 1st of next month. *Part of establishing a better corporate culture here from day 1--Who knows? Maybe if we did a better job in this area, we wouldn't have all the attrition we do now. (Attrition happens, but when you lose more than you train, it makes everybody stop and wonder).

*One thing to remember is just because this thing gets TA'd quickly, that doesn't mean it'll be ratified by the membership.

There are groups that'll vote "NO" no matter what, and those that'll vote "YES" no matter what.

Those of us in the middle want to see a contract with significant language improvement that enables us to have a job for the long term, but a job worthy of having.


GO STEELERS!!!!

 

[SkiFishFly]

Talked to a guy in the jetway today that said that scheduling had finally been ta'd. He also said that they gave up a ton of stuff to the company within that section. Hope this does not continue because it will only get shot down very quickly. I give this ta a one in five chance in making it through.

Do you really think the NPA negotiating guys would TA a scheduling section that "gave up a ton of stuff"? Why would they do that?
I think there are just a whole bunch of rumors going around amongst the pilot group right now. Seems like it might be a real good time to just keep saying to yourself "I'll believe it when I see it in writing".

 

[SkiFishFly]

There are groups that'll vote "NO" no matter what, and those that'll vote "YES" no matter what.

Those of us in the middle want to see a contract with significant language improvement that enables us to have a job for the long term, but a job worthy of having.


GO STEELERS!!!!

Well said. I think this job is currently worth having - I would not have applied here if I didn't think that way. I definitely want a job for the long term as well.

 

[Lear70]

Scope/General:
*Bind AirTran Holdings, with out that, nothing else matters. Better buyout/merger/fragmentation language.
*3year duration

3 year duration on the contract? I'm not so sure that's a great idea. 3 years will put us at the beginning of the next downturn in the industry. Just a thought.

Second, I agree on Scope. Without this, it's an automatic NO vote from me, regardless of anything else. As long as they can buy another airline under Holdings and give all our future deliveries to that other company and stagnate OUR growth, our jobs are at risk.

This is a ZERO COST item to the company.

Compensation:
*Without getting into specific numbers, big boost to years 1-6, moderate boost years 7-12 and a 12yr FO pay scale.
*Holiday pay premium
*Double time for all involuntary flying (reassign and all drafts)
*5hr daily minimum
*75hr guarantee for lineholders, 78hr for reserves in exchange for more industry standard reserve pay rules.
*No guarantee reduction for loss of touching trips during vacation period or CDO integration.
*Training events pay greater of missed trips or 5hrs/day.
*28hrs per week of vacation, max out at 5 weeks/yr
*Keep the LVI protections, believe me this is huge, anyone who worked here before we got this can tell you what the scheduled used to be like.

A lot of that is great, with one notable exception. Reserve pay. Giving up our current way of paying trips for reserves will be up to a 25% pay cut for the Captains who are going to be on reserve for the next 2-3 YEARS.

I would like to be paid more as an F/O. I'm not willing to do it at the expense of a 25% pay cut for the CA's.

Scheduling:
*Do away with Section 5 sub-sections (general, planning, daily ops) this has been the single greatest grievance generating factor in the current contract.
*Opentime remains available until picked up or 48hrs prior to report time.
*If any company duty is properly placed on your schedule (training, trips, rsv) it is paid in full if removed involuntarily by the company.
*Online access to view true reserve coverage on any given day.
*No resv. on buildup lines, trips only, all CDO's or all regular trips, no mixing.
*No ready reserve.
*Ability to view your number for callout while sitting reserve, online access.
*Mandatory Long Call Reserve
*No changing of reserve availability periods, ever.
*Omit requirement for a resv to call sched after a trip.
*Fix SAP, allow a pilot to drop below 75hrs during SAP.
*Keep the current 12hr duty day.
*Monthly limitations on re-assignments, just like we have with DL drafts.
*Remove "extraordinary personal hardship" requirement to decline Re-assign, DL draft, JA.

Gotta disagree with the last one. J.A. and DL drafts are company tools to staff the airline. They're not using them in an unacceptable manner - I came from a company that DID use them unacceptably, so I know a bit about it.

I agree that clause is a little too management-oriented, but you have to leave the company SOME leeway during IrOps. Maybe put in a clause that specifically addresses under what circumstances a crewmember may refuse these assignments, such as family illness, family / childcare obligation, previous plans that are not deferrable / cancelable (vacation plans - even for short weekend getaways -, etc).

You're right about Subsections in 5, that's been the hardest part of the contract for me to figure out here, how they go back and forth between sections for their own interpretations. Just odd...

Take out the DL Draft / JA part of the above proposal, and these changes become ZERO COST to the company while DRASTICALLY improving the QOL for the pilot group.

Sick/LTD/OJI/Hotels/Grievance/Retirement etc:
*Increase sick time accrual to at least 5hrs/month
*Remove $5000 monthly cap on LTD.
*Remove requirement for company requested Dr note
*Remove 6 month employment requirement to use sick time.
*Remove 70hr cap on OJI benefit.
*Better quality layover hotels, list certain brands as "unacceptable"
*Optional group policy for Loss of License insurance.
*Speed up the grievance process, omit requirement for union to re-submit grievance to CPO (redundant/unnecessary), more system board meetings.
*Increase B-fund contributions 1% per year.
*Lower the insurance costs.

I have no problem with a Doctor's note requirement, as long as the company pays for the visit TO THE DOCTOR OF MY CHOICE and lets me know within 24 hours of my sick call that they are requesting this. If I'm sick, I'm calling in sick. If they want me to see a doctor about it, that's fine, too. Asking for a doctor's note 5 days later is pretty stupid.

I agree on removing the 6 month employment requirement, that's just assinine. So you're not supposed to get sick for half a year? Or just come to work anyway, even though it's an FAR violation to report to work unfit for duty.

Insurance costs MUST come down to something inline with industry-standard, which is roughly $100 a month for single coverage, $200 a month for family coverage for a PPO plan. Not the crap HMO plan that's out there. $400-700 a month for health insurance is RIDICULOUS and, for F/O's, represents 10-20% of your salary!!

Other than that, what you have is pretty good, and I'd sign it.

I don't believe it would cause an undue economic hardship on the company. In fact, I would be willing to bet our CASM after this agreement was in place would STILL be one of the lowest in the industry, INCLUDING the legacies and other LCC's.

No one wants to burn the house down, and just about everything above is pretty middle-of-the-pack in terms of compensation. It's pretty funny that some people think it's SUCH a HUGE increase - most of those items above are ZERO COST to the company.

Just goes to show you what some people can get used to...