AirTran Contract issues

[fmr727drvr]

zzzzzzzzz

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

So I'm going to put the welfare and finances of myself, my wife and children ahead of your financial difficulties, your out of your freaking mind. And anyone that tells you otherwise is just plain lying right to your face. If you don't like the pay rates, working at Airtran or whatever else go the fuk somewhere else or better yet get out of the industry. Is it my fault you can't afford certain things. Did you honsestly come here not knowing the pay rates. Cause if you did, boy that just makes you stupid doesn't it?

So since you put no one above yourself, I think all the FOs and Jr. CA should vote that way also. When upgrade comes I want the current RSV so I can fly 40 and get paid for 110. Thanks for opening my eyes.
Im glad we have CAs out there that stand for the good of the group and not just themselfs.

 

[71driver]

I am not surprised

 

[lacky]

I've been watching this thread with interest for some time. As you all know the comparisons to other airlines based on hourly rates alone don't tell the whole story. Obviously comparing W2s is the only way to get a true picture. Otherwise you can give this website a try and you'll see how Airtran compares on it's current contract. Recalling the Aritran Vs CAL discussion I got the following numbers:

AirTran
5 year FO, 10 year CAP
6% 401k contribution @ 9% return
10.5% BPLAN contribution @ 9% return
Average 80 hours/mo
Total - $2,16,1477

Continental
5 year Small Narrow FO, 10 year Small Narrow CAP
6% 401k contribution @ 9% return
12.75% BPLAN contribution @ 9% return
Average 80 hours/mo
Total - $2,312,473

http://www.flightsalary.com/airlinelist.html

 

[Murphy]

Hillary wins NH. Comeback Girl!

 

[PRINCE AKEEM]

Hillary wins NH. Comeback Girl!

I hope you are a chick Off to S.C. for Romney!

 

[Lear70]

I've been watching this thread with interest for some time. As you all know the comparisons to other airlines based on hourly rates alone don't tell the whole story. Obviously comparing W2s is the only way to get a true picture. Otherwise you can give this website a try and you'll see how Airtran compares on it's current contract. Recalling the Aritran Vs CAL discussion I got the following numbers:

AirTran
5 year FO, 10 year CAP
6% 401k contribution @ 9% return
10.5% BPLAN contribution @ 9% return
Average 80 hours/mo
Total - $2,16,1477

Continental
5 year Small Narrow FO, 10 year Small Narrow CAP
6% 401k contribution @ 9% return
12.75% BPLAN contribution @ 9% return
Average 80 hours/mo
Total - $2,312,473

http://www.flightsalary.com/airlinelist.html

That comparison isn't very accurate, simply because VERY few CAL pilots stay in a narrow-body for more than a year or two unless they're independently wealthy or they refuse a 15-20% pay increase so they can live in their domicile or have better bidding power.

CAL was putting people in LNB and even WB classes as new-hires, so your numbers aren't a good comparison of CAREER expectations between the two carriers. (Not to mention that CAL is under a concessionary agreement right now and is looking for LARGE increases in all pay brackets.)

Since AAI doesn't have LNB or WB aircraft (and likely won't anytime soon), you have to somehow bridge the gap between industry narrowbody averages and career earnings at other carriers or attrition at AAI will increase (again).

THAT is why AAI has the highest 717 CA pay rates in the industry. At some point, they were able to understand this simple premise. When we get back to that understanding and kill this idea of giving up quality of life items to get basic Cost-Of-Living-Adjustment pay raises, we might be close to getting a decent contract.

p.s. The difference between the averages of the two narrow-body 5-year F/O groups is about 12% LESS at AAI than CAL. ($235,000 -vs- $255,000 base salary (9.5% difference) plus the difference from 10.5% B fund and 12.75% B fund).

Hourly rates DO tell the story if you're going to use that calculator, as do differences in B-fund or differences in 401(k) matches.

What hourly rates DON'T tell you is the WORK RULES and how much they change your CREDIT, which directly changes the W-2's beyond the story of hourly rates.

Been doing this a while...

 

[Lear70]

Hey 717 Capt I just.....thought.......I'd.....I'm sorry I am just trying to compose myself after that heart felt post.
Man I have to tell you dude I don't know how you do it making 120-140K a year at Airtran and providing for your family...I mean you must be special you know? he just doesn't understand...that guy...you know?..but I do dude you are amazing...but hey!! that is why your a Captain of a big jet airliner you HAVE TO BE AMAZING TO BE A CAPTAIN...I mean isn't that right??? They just don't give to the next guy in line right??
I mean lets say a guy with little experience say in aaaa....oh...I don't know an ATR-42 or a Beech 1900 for example comes to Airtran when they were a long shot and because no one else would hire them , they wouldn't upgrade that kinda guy right?? Nahh I didn't think so your sitting in your seat because you are special...yep that's it!! I knew it all along.
Hey all you F/O's out there listen up!!! we have a Airtran Captain in need so lets do our part to ensure he and his family can get by....I mean guys and gals where would our airline be without a guy of this caliber....man I can only hope some day soon and I hope it is sooner than later I can fly with a master of his craft so that maybe...just maybe you can impart some of your knowledge and skills my way man...and listen in the interim throw us your name and address so that maybe all of us Airtran F/O's can funnel some money your way.
Take care my friend...hang in there and God speed

LOL

Rude...

but funny.

 

[-9Capt]

I've been watching this thread with interest for some time. As you all know the comparisons to other airlines based on hourly rates alone don't tell the whole story. Obviously comparing W2s is the only way to get a true picture. Otherwise you can give this website a try and you'll see how Airtran compares on it's current contract. Recalling the Aritran Vs CAL discussion I got the following numbers:

AirTran
5 year FO, 10 year CAP
6% 401k contribution @ 9% return
10.5% BPLAN contribution @ 9% return
Average 80 hours/mo
Total - $2,16,1477

Continental
5 year Small Narrow FO, 10 year Small Narrow CAP
6% 401k contribution @ 9% return
12.75% BPLAN contribution @ 9% return
Average 80 hours/mo
Total - $2,312,473

Airtran pilots don't get a 401k match. Also, without comparing rigs,work rules, vacation, sick pay, etc those numbers don't mean much.

 

[maxblast72]

From everything I have heard from my buddies recently hired at Continental, Airtran's soft pay generated by our work rules (ie duty period guarantee ,duty rig, and trip rig) is much better.

Every airline has its pros and cons, the biggest factor in career expectations is timing, ie which airline has just started their hiring boom. The rapid seniority progression for a guy hired during the beginning of a hiring boom can oftern times trump higher pay at other airlines because of quicker upgrades/quicker progression to senior lines/equipment that pay better.

Airtran's best time to be hired was between 2002 and 2004, Continental's was probably 2005 (or whenever their hiring started back up), and the past year it would seem like Delta is in the beginning of their hiring boom.

 

[Lear70]

I guess it probably is for some people, not for others. My buddy at CAL has been crediting 85 hours with 15 days off on the 757, which is about what I could do at AAI with the same days off. Maybe your buddy is on a different aircraft that doesn't fly as much daily...?

January is probably going to be the first month in a long time where those rigs at AAI will actually result in a large amount of soft pay. Usually the lines are built to minimize those soft pay credits so there hasn't historically been a lot of soft pay.

Reserve pay is another story, and NO carrier has it as good as we do... or rather, than we *DID* before they stopped allowing reserves to drop reserve days, but I digress.

You're absolutely right about hiring timing - it's always everything. I've always been lucky enough to land a job after something goes south with an employer, but always end up on the back end of a hiring boom. Sucks for me...

 

[maxblast72]

Lear70 you are right, most of our lines are built to minimize soft pay. But we still have pairings that have a day with a single leg, or two short legs that still pay 4 hrs where at Continental I believe you just get paid for what you fly.

Not counting the reserve soft pay for sitting at home unused, Airtran reserves have alot more 1 leg days than lines holders and probably more situations where the trip rig kicks in (5 or 6 day reserve periods last summer). All in all, I'll take our soft pay over what I hear they have at Continental (I'll take their route network however).

Talking about timing, do you remember those guys (GW, PB, and a few others) at Express One that turned down an offer to be in some of the first few classes at Jetblue back in 2000? Talk about bad timing.

Gonna watch that Cowgirl game this weekend? Thinking about heading out to the big D to hang out with old buddies and root against them Cowgirls. I owe them some crap after all the crap they gave me about the Steelers last weekend.

 

[Lear70]

Talking about timing, do you remember those guys (GW, PB, and a few others) at Express One that turned down an offer to be in some of the first few classes at Jetblue back in 2000? Talk about bad timing.

I sure do... I remember wanting to smack 'em. Not literally of course, but I had applied, got called, and only had 800 hours in the 727 at that point and all Lear time at 18,500 pounds before that. jetBlue required 1,000 in something over 20k pounds (200 hours short), yet they hired my buddy who had left Lear flying and had 1,200 hours of F/O time in the ATR. :angryfire

9 months later after the first EOI furloughs and then 9/11, those guys were kicking themselves... Oh well, you know what they say about hindsight.

Gonna watch that Cowgirl game this weekend? Thinking about heading out to the big D to hang out with old buddies and root against them Cowgirls. I owe them some crap after all the crap they gave me about the Steelers last weekend.

It's not OUR fault you have bad taste in football teams.

And yes, I'm going to be home watching the game on the big screen. Right after I watch the Colts beat San Diego. Should be a great game day... if Romo won't drop the ball on a game-winning field goal attempt... again.



Say Hi to everyone for me if you go.

 

[Nindiri]

Most likely, our reserve rules will remain the same right up until my type ride. The next day, the new reserve system will take affect, having come straight from the deepest pits of Hell where Satan himself wrote the contract language.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Most likely, our reserve rules will remain the same right up until my type ride. The next day, the new reserve system will take affect, having come straight from the deepest pits of Hell where Satan himself wrote the contract language.

No, No, No, the TA got voted down!! Hopefully we will never see that language again.

 

[-9Capt]

Airtran's best time to be hired was between 2002 and 2004,.

The best time to have been hired at AirTran was in August, 2001. That would make you a 68xxx number and put you right around 500 of 1700 today.

Summer of 2001 was when we ratified our current contract, and we've been hiring fairly stedily since. Life before this contract was nothing short of horriffic.