Airtran and their "500 PIC part 121" requirement?

[Ty Webb]

Having done both, I can tell you that there is a world of difference between 121 training and 142 training. At Flight Safety and Simuflite, you are the customer, and they are tasked with getting you through.

At a 121 airline, you are an employee, and the burden is on you to get through. Much, much more pressure. Plus, for a PArt 61 or 142 type, you only have to pass the required maneuvers. On a 121 ride, you have to do it in accordance with your company SOP's, FOM, and Ops Specs.

 

[135fr8r]

I've done 135 training at both of those facilities as well in accordance to company Ops Specs, FOM, and SOP's. I never felt too much pressure. Maybe it was because I actually studied.

 

[Bandit60]

The ironic thing is that I have friends that were ex-twa pilots (fo's)with over ten thousand hours of total time with tons of pic jet but were only fo's at the airline so they didnt get pic121 time.

It is actually the airlines loss on these guys that I know perosnally. They are some of the best pilots and people I know.

 

[DBCOOPER]

Airtran's requirement and SWA's requirement for PIC time (500 & 1000) are purely, as said before, a process to eliminate thousands more resume's from showing up at headquarters. The sad thing is, they are eliminating pilots that are already qualified in the 737NG, like myself for instance.

I did upgrade at my former employer, a regional 121 company, and accumulated 400 PIC Turbine. I was then offered another job, which I accepted flying the 737NG. So, here I am with over 1000 hours in the right seat of the 73, yet I'm "not qualified" to fly the same airplane for SWA...or Airtran. If these airlines think that training from scratch a BE 1900 Capt. versus throwing me in the seat to do what I already do everyday with ease, then it's their loss. Not saying that I DESERVE the job, I will say that I should be atleast able to be in the running. Unfortunatly, my resume would go straight to the shredder. It simply doesn't make any sense......I know that's the way it goes, I'm just throwing out an example of poor hiring practice.

 

[sgu]

I hear ya. It is a tough market, Air Tran and other companies can afford to call the shots. Good luck to you.

 

[Ty Webb]

I've done 135 training at both of those facilities as well in accordance to company Ops Specs, FOM, and SOP's. I never felt too much pressure. Maybe it was because I actually studied.

The training I did there (FSI and SImuflite) was for 135 PIC training . . . . FSI and Simuflite may have copies of your company's Ops Specs and checklists, but they do not try to build scenarios on your ride that require decisions based upon your company Ops Specs or SOP's.

Under 61 or 142, there are different ways to do the same thing. At most airlines, there is only one way- their way. If they say you will use "level change" instead of "altitude intervention" you better be using "level change", or it's wrong.

Also, unless things have really changed, FSI wasn't doing too much with the FMS boxes- while some of the "boxwork" I had to do on my 737NG ride would make your head spin.

Nobody is saying that 135 flying is easier . . . or harder. It's just a different set of "gotcha's", and I agree that we may not be getting the best suited pilots by sticking to 121 PIC's, but to say that a person who got a type in a new plane at FSI is a better candidate- well, that's about as silly as me saying that the best 135 guy would be a 121 Capt. . . . .

 

[capt_zman]

It's downright discriminatory. I personally don't give a hoot about AirTran, but it really irks me that I can't even apply because my career path, not my experience, doesn't meet their requirements.

Overall it's an easy solution for me, my family and I just choose not to fly AirTran.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

I personally don't give a hoot about AirTran, but it really irks me that I can't even apply because my career path, not my experience, doesn't meet their requirements.

Overall it's an easy solution for me, my family and I just choose not to fly AirTran.

It's obvious that you really DO "give a hoot" about Air Tran, even though you pretend not to. You "give a hoot" enough that their minimums policy "really irks" you, and you "give a hoot" enough that your family "choose not to fly Air Tran".

So, if you really didn't "give a hoot", then you wouldn't care enough to give it a second thought.

However, what I am sure about is that Air Tran really DOESN'T "give a hoot" that you and your family choose not to fly them over the fact that their policy "really irks" you.

 

[pilotyip]

No degee required

Air Tran will hire you without a degree, but not without 121 PIC. Goes back to TJ PIC gets you the job. Our experience in hiring follows the same thoughts. The failure rate for former military or 121 pilots is less than 1/2 that of part 91/135 world.

 

[capt_zman]

No, I don't "give a hoot" about airtran. I'll waste a synapse or two every now and then when I see threads that talk about it, but thats all.

The only "obvious" thing to me is that airtran is a 2nd rate airline "pretending" to be a 1st rate airline.

 

[FLB717]

Much like I pretend to care what you think.

 

[sgu]

No, I don't "give a hoot" about airtran. I'll waste a synapse or two every now and then when I see threads that talk about it, but thats all.

The only "obvious" thing to me is that airtran is a 2nd rate airline "pretending" to be a 1st rate airline.

No need to start calling names...it is just business...

 

[135fr8r]

It still makes no sense. Four years ago the regionals were hiring 500 hour flight instructors. Who knows why? Apparently teaching stalls and staying in the pattern prepares an individual to fly a 50 pax jet for below min wage. You didn't see those job ads screaming "previous 135 and /or jet experience preferred".

I flew 135 for 3 years, and had to learn the system, regs, etc... Why the Hell do these people seem to think non 121 guys can't learn to operate in a 121 environment.

Military equivalent?
How is the military life of any comparison to 121 flying?

 

[pilotyip]

Military equivalent?

Military equivalent? How is the military life of any comparison to 121 flying? The military pilot like the 121 pilot is trained to specific crewmember seat dependant duties, checklist standardization, crew interaction decision making. Our insurance company requires two year of two man military cockpit experience or two years 121 cockpit experience to meet DC-9 Captain insurance requirements. So there must be a connection in someone mind.

 

[capt_zman]

Yip,

At your operation, you can get 2 years of 121 time while working as an FO for the company to upgrade as a Captain on the DC9. That is valuable experience to have and I agree with that premise.

Airtran's policy is discriminatory because it says you have to possess 500 hours of 121 PIC time to be eligible for an FO position at a 121 airline. Big difference here. For example, a furloughed multi-year 121 FO (say USAir for example) who does not possess the 121 PIC time, can't apply to airtran, but could be captain eligible on your DC9 right now.

It is just so ridiculous to think, especially with all of the furloughed pilots out there, that just because you don't have 500 hours of 121 PIC time or military time, you can't be trained or are statistically less capable of passing training, for the Airtran operation. Last I checked, the furloughed pilot had to pass their past employers 121 training regimen.

I know guys with thousands of hours of flying heavy iron (75's, 73's, 76's, 74's, etc.), who can't apply. That is simply the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard of and would welcome anyone's argument as to why that is.