AirTran Airways pilots launch ALPA ballot drive!

[Ty Webb]

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it!! Last year everyone thought MB was the sent from above to rescue us from the evil empire. How is that turning out?

I don't think anyone was saying that . . . I would have rather seen him return as NC Chair, but look at our other candidate- a Management pilot?

I do have to laugh, though . . . by refusing to deal with Mike B., management is going to end up with ALPA on the property.

What we really needed was somebody like Don S., but he didn't run.

 

[Regul8r]

It's simply grown into this lathergic economic beast that's too afraid to be a real union

ALPA has to watch its step or else it could get sued...and ALPA has alot to lose. As for you being burned by ALPA? Get in line, Brother!

 

[PCL_128]

Um, how do all the airlines receive more money from ALPA then they put in?

Not all airlines. The legacy carriers pay far more than they get back. Ten thousand pilots at UAL are able to subsidize a lot of other carriers that don't bring in enough dues revenue to cover their own costs.

 

[Lear70]

Um, how do all the airlines receive more money from ALPA then they put in?

He didn't mean all the airlines "together" getting more than they put it. Certain, smaller groups getting more than they, as an individual ALPA group, put in.

Take a pilot group of 1,500 pilots (round numbers), paying 1.9% of their salary, average salary around $90k a year (all CA's and F/O's combined and averaged).

$2,565,000 per year in dues paid to ALPA.

Now, take 4 MEC reps on full-time buy, the same office staff and other, anciliary costs, a NC committee chair and SPC committee chair on full-time buy preparing for unity events and meeting with the MEC and ALPA National and planning strategy, plus one ALPA attorney working for us full-time and another 3-5 ALPA attornies working part-time...

We could easily exceed that $2.56 Million in dues while in negotiations with all our normal costs PLUS what those attornies cost ALPA to keep on salary.

The legacies, as a contrast, have pilot groups of 3,000-5,000+ with salaries about 20-30% higher (or even more with FedEx skewing the average) makes their dues contributions triple or MORE of ours, using the same resources from ALPA. THEIR excess into the ALPA coffers helps subsidize whatever our shortfall would be during negotiations.

When not needing this many people (not in negotiations), those costs of course go down substantially and we pay more in dues, in those years, than we get back out at that particular time.

ALPA is a business, after all, and has to cover its own costs.

Kind of like the high-paying business travelers subsidizing the travelers who got those $39 tickets on those insane fare sales we run. The people who pay more make up for the people who pay less towards the overall CASM (in theory, if you had enough business travelers to truly cover the shortfall and cover costs, but that's another argument.)

 

[N2264J]

Re: AirTran AIrways pilots launch ALPA ballot drive!

Our lawyer sucked, pure and simple...End result - Comair got the freedom to throw out the pilot contract. End of any leverage for the pilots, thanks ALPA.

At Delta Inc., a dollar is a dollar is a dollar.

Any dollar that comes out of the Comair pilots contract, regardless of Comair's solvency and profit margin at the time, is a dollar that doesn't have to come out of the Delta pilots contract.

This is the union support we pay for.

 

[MINIME]

No matter what union you guys end up having, you will still only be as good as your elected officials. Don't elect management wannabes!

I've heard from some that ALPA may not be good because you're next door to DAL. Well, if the DAL pilots know better, they should want you guys to get the best contract you can possibly get! This will prevent some undercutting to their business that MIGHT take place. It's that simple. Anybody with a fifth grade education should know and understand that.

Hell, I want every regional captain to make $150 per hour! If that was the case, we wouldn't see so many RJs. Instead we would see more Major jobs with more stable careers for everyone.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It can be or not, depending on how it's done. Usually there's nothing wrong with it, just pointing out how you love to generalize and assume. We get it Rez.

Our lawyer sucked, pure and simple. Read the Comair 1113c hearing if you don't believe me. Has nothing to do with who is or was sitting in the white house. My guess is you haven't read it, for there really is no defending the guy. Reading the transcript, I was embarassed that he was the best our union could put up against management. End result - Comair got the freedom to throw out the pilot contract. End of any leverage for the pilots, thanks ALPA. How did you guys at United do over the last seven years?

Got it.... ALPA sucks....

So what do you propose.... or do you just want to be the guy that says ALPA sucks....? are you that guy?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't think Lorenzo did anything extrodinanry other than exploit an obvious weakness in organized labor under the RLA threshold.

You are showing your ignorance on history.

Like NPA, the in house sucked slightly more than ALPA (happy), plus all the meet and greets pushed the mindless over the fence.

So 59,000 ALPA members including the pilots of UAL and DAL that you serve are mindless...

To me ALPA comes across as this lugging dinosaur in orthodics shuffling up the hall of the senior center with it's Commodore 64 in hand screaming "it's here to save 1978". It's simply grown into this lathergic economic beast that's too afraid to be a real union, it's become more of a corporation that like General Motors that has minions like yourself defending the CEO (prator) recieving disgusting compensation packages and past presidents getting golden parachutes ie; lifetime pensions (Worthless).

There might be some truth to that.... but if you are going jab at compensation, then I'll jab at your "why buy the cow, get the milk for free". From my perspective that is just embarrassing to be an Air Line Pilot, knowing that you are freeloading....

You say ALPA is out of touch, but yet you still benefit from it....

I believe that ALPA's presence has become an overall drag on the economics of the airline industy that financial experts have been availed to cut it off at the knees, and are much brighter than anybody that ALPA can research with a community college sub-committe. Again it's a corporation, what does ALPA have to lose, it's just a (fill in the name) pilot group, against the overall big picture pilot group.

Everyone has an opinion, and your amateur hour, immature comments indicate you really don't know what you speak of...... do you have references...??

And yes, in my 24 years of line flying I have been burned by ALPA. OO is the one of many airlines I've worked at.

Elaborate, because many guys that have been burned are really guys that just expected ALPA to serve them. They had no clue how the organization, the industry and gov't works. I am guessing that you just went golfing or skiing (for example) and didn't put an ounce of effort into being an ALPA member to protect your career... then when you got slammed by management, you blame ALPA... Just like your Lorenzo comment.

Lorenzo is the Hitler of the Air Line Industry... your comments about Lorenzo are like telling a jew that Hitler wasn't so bad...


It is too bad you can't be objective. I know ALPA has problems and many of us are trying to solve them...

It is easy for a guy like you, to chide and armchair ALPA, knowing you have no responsibilities to your pilots. However, the fact that you benefit so much from ALPA and contribute nothing and still insult and disrespect makes it difficult to respect you. In addition, those of us that are trying to improve the profession have to work harder when we interact with your fellow pilots....

 

[CFIT]

Rez,
For someone that appears some what articulate it is baffling to watch your mindless, blinded, cult like obsession to a organization that has clearly lost touch.



Good Luck, sad to watch, but good luck none the less.

Also, keep religion out of it, you don't know who might be reading your type set diarrhea.

 

[MCDU]

Spirit is very close to a new contract thanks to the resources provided by ALPA.

ALPA will keep airlines like Aloha from going away. (Aloha)


Congratulations to the Alpa represented Mesa Pilots in becoming Aloha Pilots.

ALPA will be the answer for AirTran. Alpa has done wonders for many airlines.

M