airplane off runway in CLE

[blott]

it's flight visibility when landing.... (thats why you say you could see the approach lights-and the runway, in situations like this) only cat 1 @ S5...

 

[ERJFO]

ATIS means nothing if the controller gives something different. If you are on final and ATIS say vis is 1/4 mile or 1400 RVR, then ATC comes on and says that vis is up to 1/2 or 1800, then you use what ATC says. These guys probably got an update from the tower on the vis while on approach.

Alot of times when checking in with approach they will tell you (for example) "XXXX Roger, Expect ILS 28, Runway 28 RVR is more than 5000" when the ATIS is calling 1/4 SM and 100 VV. In CLE I've had tower tell me they were getting 1000 RVR and then better than 5000 in the span of 45 secconds.

it's flight visibility when landing.... (thats why you say you could see the approach lights-and the runway, in situations like this) only cat 1 @ S5...

You need the min vis to accept the approach clearance and then to continue past the FAF. After the FAF your statement is 100% correct.

 

[ReverseSensing]

have not heard the "Race to the Bottom" in a while. Has it been won?

Only in the sense that the finish line has been reached.

 

[buxflyr]

Classic dorks showing off their knowledge of an equation that the crew should have been working on Short final or possibly even the flare. This is not rocket science. there are charts for everything....can you pass me your multiplication tables captain?

Good call. Next F.O.M. revision includes TI-86 calculator or higher model carried by all pilots when on the flight deck. Its not a matter of calculations and minuscule energy management squared by the root of Vapp b.s. I am sure these guys had done a good job until the time where the most critical decision needs to be made. Do we finish this approach and land....or do we not like the situation, and go around. Thats the only calculation that should be done on short final.

 

[RP170]

1/4 mile vis? Does anyone have any charts handy? What are the mins to shoot the approach? 6000 ft is kind of short to be a CAT 2/3 runway. Also, does the 170 have autobrakes/autoland? Just wondering.

Autobrakes: optional (I don't believe we have anything that is an "option" on the 170)

Autoland: I'm sure the aircraft could be certified to do it (not sure if autobrakes is a requirement for that or not?) We are Cat I certified only.

 

[172driver]

We are pretty sheltered here in the US when it comes to aviation safety. ATC, TCAS, GPWS, GPS, tight regulations, well-maintained airports, etc. We have our hands held a lot as pilots but winter ops are the one area where a lot is left to our judgment. Our get it done attitude can burn us quickly in this situation, as we really aren't given very good tools to make an informed decision about operating on a contaminated runway.

It has always bothered me that usually our only source of information is reports from other pilots who landed a different airplane at a different time. Surely there is better technology out there? In addition, in my experience, the only performance data we are given is advisory only and assumes we know the depth and type of contamination we will find when we get there -- wishful at best.

Be safe out there. If in doubt, go somewhere else. Nobody thanks us for the times we get it down and stopped, but they sure get upset when we don't.

 

[ultrarunner]

You forgot .....

1) Paid for training (PFT)

2) Concessions for growth

and .....

3) the RJDC!!!!!!

Backpacks got jammed in front of the brakes!

 

[paulsalem]

Lake Effect snow does not exist when the body of water is frozen.

Correct but it can come from other lakes (Huron). I'm watching the CLE news now on an overnight and the Meteorologist just said it was lake effect that "came out of nowhere and only lasted 10 minutes."

 

[AWACoff]

[
"QUOTE"We've had some pretty heavy lake effect snow squalls today which is strange since the lake is frozen over."UNQUOTE" (MGB)

I'm just quoting this guy's statement about Lake Effect off a frozen lake. I don't know if Huron or Erie is frozen over.

 

[flyer172r]

None of the Shuttle 170s have autobrakes.

What I want to know is what the crew was told about the visibility before they crossed the outer marker. If all they had heard was 1/4 sm. vis, then they legally couldn't have shot the approach.