Airnet Upgrade Question

[hydroflyer]

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU POST

Since you have used this phrase a couple of times in your postings, I thought it would be appropriate to correct a few errors in your post.

Anyways obviously we have a lot of guys on this thread who were rejected by the military and are now bitter. Once again for the last time a GPS is not a FMS..... Second my profile isin't updated. All I hear are potential attitudes that can lead to accidents on this thread. I agree with you need to know the basics. I was just merely pointing out that all these airnet guys are bashing guys who fly glass and then say they are better pilots. Little do they realize they are talking about guys with 5 times the hours, mastered the basics of IFR flying, and are trusted by major companies to flying multi million dollar machines. I would also like to point out it's a whole lot easier flying IFR when you are going 150 Kts. At that speed it's kinda hard to fall behind the jet i mean prop for the Airnet guys.

Military dudes don't hate any other pilots, we just hate to hear 500tt guys say they are the best. Especially like someone like myself has gone through a major university to learn to fly and also flight instructed, then went to pilot training in the military and has seen the difference in precision flying and quality of professional pilots.

Why would anyone want to fly those French piece's of crap anyways?? LOL

This will be my last post concerning this topic. I feel like i'm getting stupider listening to you guys

The C-5 dosen't have glass all round dials. The C-141C had glass and it was obviously better IFR platform

Fly Safe

First, I have nothing but respect to those who have served our country and this weekend has been set aside to remember those who have given their lives serving our country.

I did look into entering the military, however I was looking around 1997 when the Clinton administration was cutting back on military funding. Honestly, that route did not look like a good place to go at the time. Instead I entered college, and a couple of years later started flight training again. Was never a military reject and have no bitterness or ill feelings towards anyone.

Now, please quote the airnet pilot that said that airnet pilots are the best. I looked through these posts and the closest I found was former airnet pilots feeling that their skills were higher while flying cargo then they are now, and two other pilots, the most experienced having 250 hours responding with their impressions. I don't think I've talked to anyone who has said that civillian training is better than military.

According to the FAR's you cannot be a PIC in a 135 operation with less than 1200TT. Airnet does not bring people to class with less than 1,000TT right now. Ironically most of these pilots who you speak of who "are trusted by major companies to flying multi million dollar machines" and "mastered the basics of IFR flying" that are now flying glass are the 500TT wonder pilots going right from mastering IFR skills in their 172's to the RJ's.

What in the world are you referring to by " Why would anyone want to fly those French piece's of crap anyways?? LOL"? Are you referring to the learjet? AirNet flies Piper Navajo's, Beechcraft Barons, Cessna Caravans, and Gates Learjets. The learjet 35 is an older airplane and is american made.

 

[txpilot1_99]

Hydro,

I think I can answer the last one, the rest of them are up to him. I think he was referring to one of our former Airnet guys who's now flying the Airbus. Other than that, good luck!!!

 

[osu_av8r]

Okay, I thought these two military guys were for real, but now it's just getting ridiculous. It is more likely they are the same person. It is even more likely that this is some college kid flunky who was too stupid to get signed off for his first solo. I'm not buying it. Nobody could seriously post that stuff. This is the absolute definition of flame. A good diversion though for those of us working our butts off out on the line. Thanks kid.

 

[txpilot1_99]

Ah, I'm bored and sitting in a hotel again, so what the he!!...it passed the time.

 

[USMCAirWinger]

Okay, I thought these two military guys were for real, but now it's just getting ridiculous.

I'm fo shizzle! However, don't equate me to the C-5 dude.

 

[Ready2Fly]

Anyways obviously we have a lot of guys on this thread who were rejected by the military and are now bitter. Once again for the last time a GPS is not a FMS..... Second my profile isin't updated. All I hear are potential attitudes that can lead to accidents on this thread. I agree with you need to know the basics. I was just merely pointing out that all these airnet guys are bashing guys who fly glass and then say they are better pilots. Little do they realize they are talking about guys with 5 times the hours, mastered the basics of IFR flying, and are trusted by major companies to flying multi million dollar machines. I would also like to point out it's a whole lot easier flying IFR when you are going 150 Kts. At that speed it's kinda hard to fall behind the jet i mean prop for the Airnet guys.

Military dudes don't hate any other pilots, we just hate to hear 500tt guys say they are the best. Especially like someone like myself has gone through a major university to learn to fly and also flight instructed, then went to pilot training in the military and has seen the difference in precision flying and quality of professional pilots.

Why would anyone want to fly those French piece's of crap anyways?? LOL

This will be my last post concerning this topic. I feel like i'm getting stupider listening to you guys

The C-5 dosen't have glass all round dials. The C-141C had glass and it was obviously better IFR platform

Fly Safe

Fact... You have a huge ego. Fact... You did not voluntarily choose to fly AMC aircraft. Fact... You were selected to the tanker/transport training because the air force determined that YOU were not good enough and could not handle flying tactical single seat jets!

 

[Ready2Fly]

You sir are a moron and why everybody has a bad impression of military pilots. I have met some great pilots in the military, and in the civilian world, and I've met the jerks like you in both areas also.

As far as flying 150 kts and being low time, right now I am...however some of the other posters on here from Airnet probably have triple the jet time you have....you are aware we fly Lears also, right? I think they go faster than 150 kts in IMC.

I have yet to read anybody say they were better than the guys flying glass...I'm sure there are quite a few people out there flying glass that have been freight dawgs, and I've heard from some of them flying the glass that it makes them lazy and they probably couldn't go back to steam gauges without a lot of re-training. They are two different ball games.

I'm glad you're in the cargo aviation branch, and don't have troops on the ground depending on you to get there, even though the wx went TU, while bullets are flying.

I don't see too many freight dawgs here with 500TT, and I'll bet I'm one of the lowest time guys in this section...about to hit 2000TT with 200+ actual in props. Did you know our Senior Lear guy has 25K+TT. Let me know when you meet the guy with 5 times the hours...we have quite a few senior guys, some might even be posting here.

Let me guess...Riddle grad? As an Alum of the school I hope not. I'm sick of defending the school because of people like you with the we are the best attitude and look down on "those freight dawgs". Please, for once tell me I am wrong and it's one of those other schools...please!!! College is over! You don't have to still have the macho image while telling us all we're "dangerous, Mav." Sorry you didn't get the fighters...don't take it out on us.

Good luck out there and fly safe. Happy Memorial day to all vets out there. PS: 9 years Active Duty Navy, former FC1 (SW) USN. No, I never applied to fly for the military and have much respect for the military guys out there flying when the mission requires. Same goes for the civilian guys/gals out there who fly every night in the worst of it because we are paid to "get 'er done".

Good day, Sir!

Ask D. Vossman. He's told me personally " only pu$$ies use a flight director".
For all of your "high time" pilots at hairnet, why is that? It's because nobody will hire them because they are a bunch of cowboys that Bob Gatto cultivated and motivated to be that way.

 

[txpilot1_99]

Ask D. Vossman. He's told me personally " only pu$$ies use a flight director".
For all of your "high time" pilots at hairnet, why is that? It's because nobody will hire them because they are a bunch of cowboys that Bob Gatto cultivated and motivated to be that way.

Not saying that's the best quote from an Airnet guy, hoewever, where does it say he's better than anybody else? For the rest of it, well, you are just the bomb diggety, aren't you? Most came here for the turbine PIC, then couldn't afford to leave. Some, dare I say it, like it here . What a novel idea...liking where you work. We have people all over aviation, in all different aspects of flying that flew at Airnet. I don't think they were held back much because of Airnet.

Go back to the power on/off stalls, kid, and leave the grown-up talk to the adults.

 

[osu_av8r]

Ask D. Vossman. He's told me personally " only pu$$ies use a flight director".
For all of your "high time" pilots at hairnet, why is that? It's because nobody will hire them because they are a bunch of cowboys that Bob Gatto cultivated and motivated to be that way.

Oh no, AirNet brothers and sisters we have a situation. He knows about the cultivation and motivation process. Somehow he found out that on your first day of AirNet training you are led into a dark room where a blunt object strikes you on the back of the head. When you awake, the chief pilot is wearing a druid cloak and you are strapped to a chair with your eyelids forced open. They play a continuous video with Beethoven blaring and images of thunderstorms and ice interlaced with pictures of laughing children. You know what to do when we have a breech of security like this. AirNet brothers unite, fallback to the secret location and contact the Washka for further instructions.

 

[MNR]

Knowing Dan I doubt he said that if he did he was most likely refering to the FC200 FD which honestly is more trouble than its worth to use sometimes. Bob Gatto has been gone for quite some time they no longer do type ratings in house everyone goes to CAE or somewhere similar. Airnet strives to cultivate a culture of safety.

Night freight can be a much more hazerdous area of flying than others if not taking seriously. Haveing lunch with a guy and then flying over his funeral pyre that night is not fun, watching a guy get flipped by a 757 and almost making it only to have a airplane catch on fire is not fun. The guys in the training department never want to see that happen again. They do everything in their power to train well and weed out those who can't make it. Safety and Maintiance are number one priorities at Airnet.

The guys who fly for them are not cowboys. I was a freight dawg once...I don't consider myself a cowboy and never will. I do consider myself an ex-fright dog however. I do what I can to get the job done within the scope of the FAA regulations and my comfort level. Don't give up just because there is a TS in your way or the wx is low. I think flying for Airnet in a Baron and Aerostar for 2 years and then a Lear gave me a great flying, stick and rudder, background.

Now flying a 60 I can tell you that flying glass does rust up the skills a bit. I think it also rust up the skills to not fly as much as I did flying freight. I did 1000+ hours on that side. Flying charter I will be lucky to get 400 a year. That in and of itself makes for a rustier pilot. I have actually been lucky to get maybe 4 approaches down to minimums this year. The frieght guys did that many at least one night last week.

So get off the freight guys case. Nobody said they were better. Bottom line is they do a TON of flying each year. Glass vs. Steam, Mil vs. Civ, ERU grad vs. local FBO grad.....it all doesnt matter. These guys have more time in the cockpit in a week than most of us will see in a month. That much flying will make for very proficient pilots.

Now can anyone on the freight side get me a fright flight jacket, the one with the freight dawg patch on it? All of the ones I had are abused beyond use and they dont have the patch.

 

[Ready2Fly]

Actually he was referring to the FD-108. He was also quoted saying that only pu$$ies flew 35s, real men like himself, flew 25s. Not a cowboy? Just ask him about 55F and the hailstorm.

 

[starchkr]

Ahhh...more time to waste, let me write some stuff up here...

Hydroflyer...yeah, i believe he was refering to the fact that i fly the bus now and that it just happens to be made if France...which in all reality only some assembly is done in France, and a lot more is done in Germany...so would it be German then hmmmm...I don't know...but to respond to him on that one...I wanted to work for this company for many years, not because of what they fly, but because of the environment and the people here, they just happen to fly the Airbus...pretty simple.

I do like the statement about flying 150kts in props...here's someone who really knows what he's talking about...yeah right. I guess he knows absolutely nothing about the company...like has been said they also fly lears...and doing 150 in the lear is just about stupid!!! I guess he doesn't know the Airnet profiles either...i always liked doing 200 to the marker and getting it configured as required when shooting approaches to mins...you WILL NOT see the military doing that, they are just like the 121 carriers, configured outside the marker and lsowed to approach speed...talk about easy!!!

5 times the hours thing was also pretty darn hilarious...maybe he doesn't realize that when he buys a plane ticket on a regional carrier that the possibility of his flight crew having only a couple thousand hours TT combined is very high (not saying it is always that way, but the odds are VERY good). Let alone some of the airnet guys on here who although they have only been witht he company a few years have 2 to 3 times that amount...I know i had the most flight time in my initial class at my current employer...and what do you know, i was the only freight guy, the rest were regional carryovers and a couple military guys (who had the lowest flight times by the way). Also on the 500tt guys saying they are the best...well, there isn't a single one of those on this thread...the lowest time guys there must have 1000+, so again, i must say there is another lack of knowledge of the company.

txpilot...you are right, no-one on here says they are better than glass pilots...but i did say that my skills have laxed a bit since moving into glass. I agree, your skills altogether go down once you rely on the glass, and i will always say that just from experience alone.

Oh ready2fly...did you open up something you don't want to be a part of...Vossman is right, the FD in the lears was pretty $hitty!!! I too will say that and back him up on it. I NEVER used the FD except for the requirement during training of using the AP to fly an approach (oh yeah, and when the guys at CAE would get on me about ALWAYS using it)...it sucked, so therefore every approach was done by hand no matter what. It was so far behind the airplane at times it scared me, i would rather hand fly than let the thing try to catch back up to itself close to mins in uneven terrain. If you have never flown it then you have no way to know and therefore have no opinion on its use and his statement. Plus, if you "need" a FD to shoot an approach then yes, you are a pu$$y, if you can't do it by hand then you have no right even attempting to try to fly one. I did get a little chuckle out of your other statement about the high time guys...but it was at you and not with you, sorry. Many of the high time guys stay because they are used tot he lifestyle and don't wish for it to change...it has nothing to do with the fact that they cannot be hired anywhere else...many people leave airnet for the airlines, and no, not just to the regionals. And i will agree with txpilot about not being able to "afford" to leave...once you start living the lifestyle you have with the money you are making it is hard to take a pay cut to go anywhere else, including the majors(and yes it is a pay cut)...just to put it into perspective pay wise, i got lucky, i took a job at the highest paying first year airline in the country right now and i still had to take a pay cut (albeit not a very big one), and i was there only 5+ years...now get a guy making much more than i was who was there for say 10 years (so maybe now he is 30...not all old codgers as you may think) and even coming here would be a big cut for him. Ok, so what about 55F...who cares about a hail storm...it's not the first time one of the Airnet planes went through one. And if you are refering to the fact that he purposely went through a hail storm then you are full of $hit...you CANNOT tell if the storm is producing hail or not until you fly into it, it is impossible. There are storms that shouldn't produce hail that do and then there are those that should produce it and they don't...hmmmm go figure!! Also as far as he being a cowboy just because he got a little hail on a bird then you are again gravely mistaken, i had a friend (many of us know him...good ole Crazy Bob) who happened to go through a hailstorm, does that make him a cowboy, or does the fact that he was flying around a couple storms when one produced a tornado and as he tried to avoid that storm his only out was by turning into a storm that just happened to have hail in it make him a cowboy...

Oh well, i guess i will go look at some other threads now, i spent enough time on this one for awhile...

 

[falconvalley]

Why are people on this thread talking about flying at night like it's some challenge??? If they really believe what they're saying I don't want them in the sky with me because they are obviously lacking in simple flying basics.

FMS is a Flight Management System
GPS is a Global Positioning System
HOW CAN YOU SAY IT"S LIKE A FANCY GPS??? The FMS does multiple things(TOLD,Flight plans, Progress, Drift,ETC) and might use the GPS as a component(your so called form of navigation), but in no way is the GPS a FMS

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE YOU POST

ONE MORE THING! MACHOISM GETS PEOPLE KILLED! I've flown all over the world: night, day, sand storms, T-storms, snow storms, missle storms, ETC. I think you get my point. Why not have the gadgets to make you more situational aware?, why not use the autopilot when your flying at the 23rd hour of your 24 hour day? USE ALL YOUR EQUIPMENT TO THE FULLEST! But stay proficient with your hands

Nobody said anything about being more then raw data equipped being a bad thing. Some numbnuts came in decided that anyone that uses raw data cannot possibly be a good pilot, which is far from the truth. Fact is, having two VORs and an ADF is like not using a caculator in math class. It should be respected. No disrepect for any technology from me though...I know it's good for us.

And secondly, I'm embarassed. Act your Grade!

 

[Ready2Fly]

Ahhh...more time to waste, let me write some stuff up here...

Hydroflyer...yeah, i believe he was refering to the fact that i fly the bus now and that it just happens to be made if France...which in all reality only some assembly is done in France, and a lot more is done in Germany...so would it be German then hmmmm...I don't know...but to respond to him on that one...I wanted to work for this company for many years, not because of what they fly, but because of the environment and the people here, they just happen to fly the Airbus...pretty simple.

I do like the statement about flying 150kts in props...here's someone who really knows what he's talking about...yeah right. I guess he knows absolutely nothing about the company...like has been said they also fly lears...and doing 150 in the lear is just about stupid!!! I guess he doesn't know the Airnet profiles either...i always liked doing 200 to the marker and getting it configured as required when shooting approaches to mins...you WILL NOT see the military doing that, they are just like the 121 carriers, configured outside the marker and lsowed to approach speed...talk about easy!!!

5 times the hours thing was also pretty darn hilarious...maybe he doesn't realize that when he buys a plane ticket on a regional carrier that the possibility of his flight crew having only a couple thousand hours TT combined is very high (not saying it is always that way, but the odds are VERY good). Let alone some of the airnet guys on here who although they have only been witht he company a few years have 2 to 3 times that amount...I know i had the most flight time in my initial class at my current employer...and what do you know, i was the only freight guy, the rest were regional carryovers and a couple military guys (who had the lowest flight times by the way). Also on the 500tt guys saying they are the best...well, there isn't a single one of those on this thread...the lowest time guys there must have 1000+, so again, i must say there is another lack of knowledge of the company.

txpilot...you are right, no-one on here says they are better than glass pilots...but i did say that my skills have laxed a bit since moving into glass. I agree, your skills altogether go down once you rely on the glass, and i will always say that just from experience alone.

Oh ready2fly...did you open up something you don't want to be a part of...Vossman is right, the FD in the lears was pretty $hitty!!! I too will say that and back him up on it. I NEVER used the FD except for the requirement during training of using the AP to fly an approach (oh yeah, and when the guys at CAE would get on me about ALWAYS using it)...it sucked, so therefore every approach was done by hand no matter what. It was so far behind the airplane at times it scared me, i would rather hand fly than let the thing try to catch back up to itself close to mins in uneven terrain. If you have never flown it then you have no way to know and therefore have no opinion on its use and his statement. Plus, if you "need" a FD to shoot an approach then yes, you are a pu$$y, if you can't do it by hand then you have no right even attempting to try to fly one. I did get a little chuckle out of your other statement about the high time guys...but it was at you and not with you, sorry. Many of the high time guys stay because they are used tot he lifestyle and don't wish for it to change...it has nothing to do with the fact that they cannot be hired anywhere else...many people leave airnet for the airlines, and no, not just to the regionals. And i will agree with txpilot about not being able to "afford" to leave...once you start living the lifestyle you have with the money you are making it is hard to take a pay cut to go anywhere else, including the majors(and yes it is a pay cut)...just to put it into perspective pay wise, i got lucky, i took a job at the highest paying first year airline in the country right now and i still had to take a pay cut (albeit not a very big one), and i was there only 5+ years...now get a guy making much more than i was who was there for say 10 years (so maybe now he is 30...not all old codgers as you may think) and even coming here would be a big cut for him. Ok, so what about 55F...who cares about a hail storm...it's not the first time one of the Airnet planes went through one. And if you are refering to the fact that he purposely went through a hail storm then you are full of $hit...you CANNOT tell if the storm is producing hail or not until you fly into it, it is impossible. There are storms that shouldn't produce hail that do and then there are those that should produce it and they don't...hmmmm go figure!! Also as far as he being a cowboy just because he got a little hail on a bird then you are again gravely mistaken, i had a friend (many of us know him...good ole Crazy Bob) who happened to go through a hailstorm, does that make him a cowboy, or does the fact that he was flying around a couple storms when one produced a tornado and as he tried to avoid that storm his only out was by turning into a storm that just happened to have hail in it make him a cowboy...

Oh well, i guess i will go look at some other threads now, i spent enough time on this one for awhile...

What about Cesar?

 

[starchkr]

Who the F**K is Cesar?! Maybe i am missing something in your question, but i don't know a Cesar...