Airlines fall, victors smugly smile

[afhercdriver]

What makes me mad is how the lawyers and managers manipulate the employees. Asking for consessions a little a time so the employees don't realize what is going on. While the whole time they have a already have a play called from their playbook in. Management does this all the time. Playing one union against another is a common practice and the employees never win. It's called "Union Busting" by management. There should be laws against paying a CEO millions of dollars while the rest of the employees take it in the shorts.

Jim

 

[Draginass]

You need to do what the execs do . . . . get as much as you can, as fast as you can. Leave NOTHING under anyone else's control unless you want them to steal it.

I'm sure Tilton and his henchmen are still laughing about how they snookered the workers about of everything.

Corp execs in this country are nothing but a bunch of theives.

 

[gnx99]

Good vid! The moral of the story; have the balls to strike. That is, if the courts will let you

 

[hoover]

As I watched this video, a few thoughts occurred to me

1) We now have an entire new industry dedicated to helping companies get out of the commitments they have made => bankruptcy lawyers. What the hell kind of value system is that?

2) In future contracts, unions need to negotiate a "superpriority" status so that if companies go into bankruptcy, the employees are the last place management looks instead of the first.

3) I don't understand why some people stay with the airlines. That flight attendant comes to mind. She took a several thousdand dollar pay cut and lost her pension. But her salary is hardly irreplaceable. There are many places where an intelligent person can make way more than that. Why doesn't she just go somethat pays more and offers better benefits?

4) I used to think that bankruptcy was ok if it meant saving the company and saving jobs. But these days I tend to think that if the only way a company can survive is to ignore its obligations, then it is better if it goes under. Everyone (including the employees) would ultimately be better off.

5) Are we now becoming a society that simply uses legal trickery to ignore our oblications to each other? If so I fear for our future.

 

[AA717driver]

What the hell kind of value system is that?

This is America. That IS our value system now.

5) Are we now becoming a society that simply uses legal trickery to ignore our oblications to each other? If so I fear for our future.

Yes and you should be scared to death for the future.

Until ALL of us are willing to lay it on the line and STMFD--everywhere, nothing will change. They own us and they know it. TC

 

[hoover]

It's not about STMFD. It's about people treating each other with little or no regard. Take the corporate world today. It is full of people who spend a few years at a company focusing all their energies on improving the quaraterly results, and gettng the stock price up. After a couple of years of doing that they've positioned the company in a horribly for the future. Good paying jobs get shipped overseas leaving only low paying service jobs here. They then bail out and go to the next company where they do it all over again.

Meanwhile the average person is finding it harder and harder to keep up. Prices keep spiraling out of control, making it even harder to make a life for oneself (i.e a home, raising a family that he can spend time with, planning for retirement).

It seems we are rapidly becoming a society where the rich, who already have plenty, feel the need to hurt people in order to get more. It's the middle class that makes this country work, but this individual greed is systematically destroying it. Where does it end?

I think the upshot of all this is that no one thinks about the future anymore. It is all about me, and the here and now.

 

[RiteSideUp]

...Calfo, while I applaud you for upping your 401K, the same corrupt people can take that away too.
...

How? If you know how they could do this please explain so we can fix it before it happens again.

 

[AC560]

How? If you know how they could do this please explain so we can fix it before it happens again.

See Enron.

 

[AC560]

Didn't UAL try that?

Was some sarcasm on my part. While the management clowns at UA certainly did their part, the employee owners share a bit of the blame as well.

 

[Lear70]

You're delusional if you think anything in this country is going to change by simply voting along different party lines.

There is a systematic breakdown of protection for the middle class in this country. It started almost 40 years ago, and it started at the TOP.

YOUR Congress, Senate, and President back in the 70's started this mess. It's now akin to trying to close the barn door after the horses are out, and there isn't a President or elected official in office right now who has the balls to start the difficult, painful, and expensive process of making things right. It would be political suicide to try.

The best thing you can do is save wisely, invest intelligently, make as much money as you can, and shift your cash, investments, and property slowly into international markets as you age.

This country isn't going to be worth living in 30 years from now.

If I were a single 20-something guy getting into the aviation industry now and dead-set on flying for a living, I'd be going Ex-Pat at the earliest possible opportunity.

 

[AC560]

shift your cash, investments, and property slowly into international markets as you age.

While the international markets are hot that isn't going to last much longer. Vietnam's market is up 1500% for the year largely because people can borrow money to put into the market. Great deal until the market tanks and people can't repay the loans and then it is a downward spiral (see USA 1929).

China and India both have inflationary markets which will drive inflation in the US for the first time in almost 20 years. In China alone the salary of a factory worker has more then doubled in last 12 months in the Guan Dong province. This of course is finding its way into the cost of the cheap crap we have enjoyed purchasing for years along with fuel costs being out of sight.

The past 20yrs have been interesting because we have managed to hold costs down in the US by continually finding cheaper means of production. This lack of inflation has kept wages down as well. There is fast becoming no cheaper places and the costs to the supply chain in terms of security and fuel are further hurting matters (coupled with increased domestic demand in India/China for goods they have traditionally sent to us because they now have a middle class). All of this is going to drive inflation which hurts emerging markets.

Ultimately I think this will be good for the US and drive some manufacturing back here. You are already seeing it for low cost textile items like socks and underwear where it just isn't cost effective to manufacture and ship it anymore.

In short don't give up on America yet, we are actually in a better spot then most people think and as things go on I think that position will become better and better.

 

[RiteSideUp]

See Enron.

I don't remember Enron doing anything to anyones 401k. ESOP gone. Pensions gone. But as far as I know, no one can touch 401k's. Unless you know something I don't.

 

[AC560]

I don't remember Enron doing anything to anyones 401k. ESOP gone. Pensions gone. But as far as I know, no one can touch 401k's. Unless you know something I don't.

http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2002/01/17/401k/index.html

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

I don't remember Enron doing anything to anyones 401k. ESOP gone. Pensions gone. But as far as I know, no one can touch 401k's. Unless you know something I don't.

Under today's circumstances I agree. But we also think social security will be there when we retire. Since we don't actually control/have possession of the money it can be taken away via a market meltdown or let's say your investments are found to be "bogus" and/or over inflated and then crash 6 months before retiring. Far fetched I know but then again I am sure the retired UAL folks thought their pensions were sealed and now are door greaters at Wal-Mart (overstatement I know). After UAL, Enron, Savings and Loan scandal in the 90's, etc. I am a bit skeptical of those who are "in charge".

 

[RiteSideUp]

Ok, I stand corrected on the 401k Enron issue. I didnt realize they went throught the 401k system to give employees stock in the company. But really Enron didnt get their hands on the 401k's, they just happened to have 60 percent of their 401k's in Enron stock. It would have been the same if Enron employees had 60% of their 401k stock in UAL, which really is a matter of diversification rather than 'the man' taking away your retirement.

Now, I realize that the workers were forced to have Enron stock, which I don't agree with and I think does need to be changed. Right now with my company, my 401k is fairly diversified through mutual funds and doesn't have any of my own company's stock. As far as I know, they can't come back and touch any of it.

BTW, that link is a good read AC560. Thx for clearing that up.