Airlines fall, victors smugly smile

[AC560]

Nothing new under the sun. As long as you have corrupt people in positions of power and/or authority they will always use it for their advantage.

ESOP to set the masses free.

 

[Cobra]

The biggest travesty is that our beloved ALPA let this happen to us. I don't expect us line pukes to get a leg up on scumbag corporate lawyers but I do expect ALPA to exhaust its resources spelling out what is happening to us BEFORE a conceeionary contract vote.

What about the legal guns our leaders are always suggesting are the best labor money can buy, etc. Where were they while we were getting robbed?

We should've shut this country down for a day bringing mgmt/ Wall Street to its knees.

Perhaps this stuff is legal now but it ought to be outlawed. Yet another reason why this registered republican voted 100% democrat during the last election.

Amen bro.

 

[Cobra]

The PBS video, while well done, should be no "eye opener." It was a bit slanted toward the left, painting a picture that employees had no choice. Folks, this is America - if you don't like something you have a choice. Some may take this has being harsh - but it's reality. Hello - you're in aviation - plan ahead.

Tilton is a crook. While he may have done a "good job" of saving the company, he did a very poor job of leading by example. The lawyers are crooks. $400,000,000 to reorganize is absurd. United in it's quest to save money simply changed where is wasted money - lawyers and overcompensated execs. Tiltin shouldn't make $40,000...but he should be more inline with his team.

The bankers were criticized for getting ALL their money back. If you loan money to a cousin, I'm sure you'd want it all back plus interest as well. While noted in the video, it did a poor job of showing WHY the bankers SHOULD get their money back. They took the risk - they should be able to "get out." If you don't pay your mortgage, you lose your house to the bank. This is no different - just on a bigger scale.

The flight attendent nearly cries when she thinks of her financial future. Do you think she is alone? These types are the same people who NEVER seek help. Their are financial planners on every corner who would help her figure the numbers so she could be more confident in her decisions going forward. But she'd rather flail around and cry about her situation. Grow up.

Don't take me wrong - the UAL situation is terrible. At the same time, however, we have to be sure we hear BOTH sides of any story. PBS paints a "poor people" picture. Yet, it fails to mention that this financial irresponsibility by UAL was never addressed PRIOR to the impending bankruptcy. Remember the last UAL contract - industry leading. If somebody couldn't run the math back then and see a potential for bankruptcy in poor economic times, then pitty runs shallow. Yes, this is the company's responsibility, but also the responsibility of each and every person at UAL to plan for the worst. I see it so often in our society, when things are good we run around like we're kings and queens of the world. When things are bad we point fingers - it's never OUR fault. We all need to take more responsibility.

I'm sure I'll be chastized for these remarks - I'm open-minded and not trying to lay blame, but rather be sure we don't go into ANOTHER scerio with our eyes shut!

AZT

Sure, your open-minded in some respects... Some...

 

[Freight Dog]

I think before any concessionary contract gets ratified, this video should be sent and shown to the masses before they vote. If after this video they vote for concessions, they deserve what they get...

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

ESOP to set the masses free.

Didn't UAL try that?

 

[afhercdriver]

What makes me mad is how the lawyers and managers manipulate the employees. Asking for consessions a little a time so the employees don't realize what is going on. While the whole time they have a already have a play called from their playbook in. Management does this all the time. Playing one union against another is a common practice and the employees never win. It's called "Union Busting" by management. There should be laws against paying a CEO millions of dollars while the rest of the employees take it in the shorts.

Jim

 

[Draginass]

You need to do what the execs do . . . . get as much as you can, as fast as you can. Leave NOTHING under anyone else's control unless you want them to steal it.

I'm sure Tilton and his henchmen are still laughing about how they snookered the workers about of everything.

Corp execs in this country are nothing but a bunch of theives.

 

[gnx99]

Good vid! The moral of the story; have the balls to strike. That is, if the courts will let you

 

[hoover]

As I watched this video, a few thoughts occurred to me

1) We now have an entire new industry dedicated to helping companies get out of the commitments they have made => bankruptcy lawyers. What the hell kind of value system is that?

2) In future contracts, unions need to negotiate a "superpriority" status so that if companies go into bankruptcy, the employees are the last place management looks instead of the first.

3) I don't understand why some people stay with the airlines. That flight attendant comes to mind. She took a several thousdand dollar pay cut and lost her pension. But her salary is hardly irreplaceable. There are many places where an intelligent person can make way more than that. Why doesn't she just go somethat pays more and offers better benefits?

4) I used to think that bankruptcy was ok if it meant saving the company and saving jobs. But these days I tend to think that if the only way a company can survive is to ignore its obligations, then it is better if it goes under. Everyone (including the employees) would ultimately be better off.

5) Are we now becoming a society that simply uses legal trickery to ignore our oblications to each other? If so I fear for our future.

 

[AA717driver]

What the hell kind of value system is that?

This is America. That IS our value system now.

5) Are we now becoming a society that simply uses legal trickery to ignore our oblications to each other? If so I fear for our future.

Yes and you should be scared to death for the future.

Until ALL of us are willing to lay it on the line and STMFD--everywhere, nothing will change. They own us and they know it. TC

 

[hoover]

It's not about STMFD. It's about people treating each other with little or no regard. Take the corporate world today. It is full of people who spend a few years at a company focusing all their energies on improving the quaraterly results, and gettng the stock price up. After a couple of years of doing that they've positioned the company in a horribly for the future. Good paying jobs get shipped overseas leaving only low paying service jobs here. They then bail out and go to the next company where they do it all over again.

Meanwhile the average person is finding it harder and harder to keep up. Prices keep spiraling out of control, making it even harder to make a life for oneself (i.e a home, raising a family that he can spend time with, planning for retirement).

It seems we are rapidly becoming a society where the rich, who already have plenty, feel the need to hurt people in order to get more. It's the middle class that makes this country work, but this individual greed is systematically destroying it. Where does it end?

I think the upshot of all this is that no one thinks about the future anymore. It is all about me, and the here and now.

 

[RiteSideUp]

...Calfo, while I applaud you for upping your 401K, the same corrupt people can take that away too.
...

How? If you know how they could do this please explain so we can fix it before it happens again.

 

[AC560]

How? If you know how they could do this please explain so we can fix it before it happens again.

See Enron.

 

[AC560]

Didn't UAL try that?

Was some sarcasm on my part. While the management clowns at UA certainly did their part, the employee owners share a bit of the blame as well.

 

[Lear70]

You're delusional if you think anything in this country is going to change by simply voting along different party lines.

There is a systematic breakdown of protection for the middle class in this country. It started almost 40 years ago, and it started at the TOP.

YOUR Congress, Senate, and President back in the 70's started this mess. It's now akin to trying to close the barn door after the horses are out, and there isn't a President or elected official in office right now who has the balls to start the difficult, painful, and expensive process of making things right. It would be political suicide to try.

The best thing you can do is save wisely, invest intelligently, make as much money as you can, and shift your cash, investments, and property slowly into international markets as you age.

This country isn't going to be worth living in 30 years from now.

If I were a single 20-something guy getting into the aviation industry now and dead-set on flying for a living, I'd be going Ex-Pat at the earliest possible opportunity.