Airline Mergers!

[Tomct]

I believe that it was Pardus Capital Mgmnt (your biggest BK backer...I THINK) and they are for the merger with UA! Again, still looking.

 

[IronCityBlue]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7951503
This is one of the articles I found, I am looking for another one that specifically stated with a UA/DAL merger, SLC and CVG would be gone and the name would be UA. ATL would be a focus city, but company hq would be Chicago. Still looking...

I remember hearing exactly that as well, but it was during the immediate time frame of the initial Pardus request. I think Pardus may have been injecting their 2 cents into how the end product would look. I don't think any of that was any kind of mandate from anyone at Delta or United because when that article containing that version of the end product was out both Delta and United were denying any talks were going on between them. Why would they deny talks were happening if they had any of the details figured out already? IOW even if that's how it would happen, we wouldn't have found about it from the article you're thinking about anyway. It was just Pardus's (or some other speculator/reporter's) theory of the hour.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Easy fellows, no need to fight over the name. I do believe that when Delta mentioned they were looking at Northwest and United, they were looking to bring another party into this possible tranaction. I believe Delta really favors United as a potential merger partner. However, just like United back in 2000 when it attempted to by US Air, it brought American into the picture. (20% US Air assets and TWA) We all know what happened there. But the idea is to appeal to the regulators. I believe Doug Parker in Phoenix is on the phone with all three parties and that is where the possible link between Northwest and US Airways will come about. I do believe these four airlines will merge into two airlines to start consolidation (DL and UAL, US and NW). What names will be preserved, well ....don't know!

 

[IronCityBlue]

Easy fellows, no need to fight over the name. I do believe that when Delta mentioned they were looking at Northwest and United, they were looking to bring another party into this possible tranaction. I believe Delta really favors United as a potential merger partner. However, just like United back in 2000, when it attempted to by US Air it brought American into the picture. (20% US Air assets and TWA) We all know what happened there. But the idea is to appeal to the regulators. I believe Doug Parker in Phoenix is on the phone with all three parties and that is where the possible link between Northwest and US Airways will come about. I do believe these four airlines will merge into two airlines to start consolidation (DL and UAL, US and NW). What names will be preserved, well ....don't know!

Good theory, except the first line. Fighting over the name is the foundation upon which a good "my airline can beat up your airline" female dog fest is built upon. :smash:

 

[General Lee]

Just because Delta will make that choice, what (other than wishful thinking) makes you so sure United is about to liquidate and Delta isn't? If UAL sold you their Asian routes, they wouldn't be around much longer as that is their biggest crown jewel and would be a clear indication of an impending liquidation. Why couldn't United just acquire your European routes and Shuttle operation, and maybe your JFK hub? That would also be a nice fit for them on par with your prediction, only in their favor. Or is your entire prediction just based on Anderson's pep talks and your team spirit?

Now you are smoking dope. We are stronger than most, and are in position to do something. Tilton wants to sell, and it may be in parts. Where did I get that idea? I got it from a United pilot who told me that was their rumor. Interesting rumor indeed.

Where will Jetblue go? Maybe Spirit will buy you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tomct]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21791526/

This article gives the speculation that I was talking about. Only time will tell!

 

[General Lee]

Easy fellows, no need to fight over the name. I do believe that when Delta mentioned they were looking at Northwest and United, they were looking to bring another party into this possible tranaction. I believe Delta really favors United as a potential merger partner. However, just like United back in 2000 when it attempted to by US Air, it brought American into the picture. (20% US Air assets and TWA) We all know what happened there. But the idea is to appeal to the regulators. I believe Doug Parker in Phoenix is on the phone with all three parties and that is where the possible link between Northwest and US Airways will come about. I do believe these four airlines will merge into two airlines to start consolidation (DL and UAL, US and NW). What names will be preserved, well ....don't know!

Delta favors a United merger? Huh? Not only is there more overlapping of hubs, but also they are a Star Alliance founding member. Their finances are in shambles too. Northwest is a buddy to KLM, owned by Air France, a buddy to us. Even the UBS analyst said that a NWA/DL hook up is better than a 50% chance, and that if that occured CAL would buy United. Those guys have a lot more access to this type of info than you and I do. USAir is watching this carefully no doubt, but they may be left out. Southwest doesn't want them, and American doesn't need them. If CAL does go with United, USAir will be squashed by the shear size of the two mega carriers, and AA will be a distant third in size.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IronCityBlue]

Now you are smoking dope. We are stronger than most, and are in position to do something. Tilton wants to sell, and it may be in parts. Where did I get that idea? I got it from a United pilot who told me that was their rumor. Interesting rumor indeed.

Where will Jetblue go? Maybe Spirit will buy you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I don't see a whole lot of value in a JB/Spirit combo but who knows. I would guess if DAL and NWA merge (sorry, DAL aquires NWA and does with them what they wish because they are the best airline on the face of infinity, and beyond!!!) that UAL would go full court press for CAL, and if that was rejected UAL would go for JB. It would be the perfect fit as USAir still has a joke of an international network that would bring extremely little value to UAL at an extremely high cost. It would give them NY/BOS presence which I think UAL needs to be a global player, but they can get that by snatching up JB a whole lot cheaper and with much, much less bloodshed merger wise. *staple, staple* all the groups and furlough all excess capacity and they're done. Even if that new merger law prohibits a staple, they can still give the bare minimum the law allows, which would still be much less messy than a UAL/USAir merger.

But you are implying DAL is so incredibly strong they can feast at the dinner buffet of the entire industry, while being completely immune from the same happening to them. OK, maybe you're right, but why? Debt to cash? Market cap? Simplifares? Mile High Mohitos? And yes, we all are aware of the MD-80 leases of only 80,000 per month and 9 million dollar MD-90's from China (including engines!) but what exactly makes you so sure Delta is the undisputed king of the merger universe right now?

 

[Yuppyguppy]

General you idiot...you'll never get your greedy hands on our pacific routes period!!

 

[General Lee]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21791526/

This article gives the speculation that I was talking about. Only time will tell!

That is an old article compared to the recent one I gave. Maybe back then they were not talking. Pardus Capital is paying Gordon Bethune to say what he thinks, in line with Pardus most likely. Pardus owns 3% of Delta and 7% of United, and I would assume they would LOVE a merger between the two. Everyone thinks that, it is obvious. After this article came out, Anderson went to Congress to testify about possible delays over the Thanksgiving Weekend. A Georgia Congressman asked him, under oath, if he had been talking to United, and he said no. He also was asked if Delta would ever move the headquarters North or change names, and Anderson said Heck NO. I can give you the article if you want it. Is he lying? If he is, that Congressman will ask for more testimony. He started talks with both NWA and United now to see which airline he could get in a deal, and that could mean parts of an airline. You are right, it will be interesting to watch. Re-read the MSP article about what name could be in the result of a merger--it is more recent.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Your article was Nov 14th. Here is one the next day...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21791526/

This article gives the speculation that I was talking about. Only time will tell!

Well, your article was on NOV 14th, and the one below is on Nov 15th. Please read the bottom with the Congress testimony. The Georgia Congressman is named Westmoreland.




Northwest May Be Best for Delta
http://www.thestreet.com/tsc/c.gif
By Ted Reed
TheStreet.com Staff Reporter
11/15/2007 5:14 PM



CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- If Delta (DAL - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) wants to merge with someone, Northwest (NWA - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) may be the most viable candidate.

On Wednesday, a hedge fund called for a merger between Delta and UAL's (UAUA - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr - Rating) United Airlines, and the Associated Press reported that the two carriers have discussed a deal that would put the combined company's headquarters in Chicago. Delta denied holding any talks.
In any case, "Northwest makes more sense," analyst Michael Derchin of FTN Midwest Securities said Thursday in a report. Additionally, a source said, past internal Delta studies have concluded that Continental (CAL - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr - Rating) and Northwest are good merger candidates, while United is not.
Those studies indicated that a pact between United and Delta, the nation's second- and third-largest airlines, would be unlikely to gain approval from antitrust regulators. Meanwhile, Northwest has the ability to limit Continental's maneuverability because it owns a stake in its fellow carrier and could block an acquisition.
Derchin wrote in his report that Northwest's Pacific routes are the primary lure. "It will take Delta 15 years to build an Asia/Pacific operation that is comparable to their current Atlantic and Latin American operations," he said. "A merger would get them there in one year." While United also has a strong Pacific operation, Derchin listed several reasons why Northwest is the preferred partner. A key is that integration of the carriers' international alliances would be smoother, namely one with Air France KLM (AKH - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr - Rating). That company has formed a joint venture with Delta, and the KLM division has a business venture with Northwest.

A merger with NWA closes this loop," Derchin said. United is a founder of the competing Star Alliance.

Additionally, Delta, which is rapidly expanding internationally, could benefit from Northwest's position as the U.S. launch customer for the Boeing 787, with orders or options for 68 deliveries. Anderson, a former Northwest executive, "knows where the bodies are buried," Derchin said.
While Northwest would have an advantage in gaining regulatory approval because it is smaller, a merger with United could also be cleared, he believes. FTN Midwest Securities makes a market in UAL's shares.
For its part, Northwest is among the airlines that has been noncommittal on consolidation. At an industry conference last week, CFO Dave Davis said that "consolidation has been a feature of this business for decades, and we think it's going to continue," but did not comment on what Northwest's role might be.
Meanwhile, the thought of a merger with United and a move of Delta's Atlanta headquarters troubled U.S. Rep Lynn Westmoreland, R-Ga., who questioned Delta CEO Richard Anderson Thursday at a House Aviation Subcommittee hearing on airlines' preparations for the holiday travel season. Westmoreland proclaimed his loyalty to Delta, saying that he represents many Delta employees and that he, his wife and daughter are former employees. He said he was disappointed to read of the merger talks, had also read Delta's denial, and wanted to hear from directly Anderson that there were no discussions.

I haven't talked to [United CEO] Glenn Tilton or any other executive at United since the last time I was in the industry four years ago," Anderson responded. "There are no discussions, there have been no discussions. I was as surprised at that AP article as you were."

Then Westmoreland declared Delta is "a southern company," adding "We don't want the family moving north. We want to keep the family in Atlanta." To which Anderson responded: "We couldn't agree with you more. It's a great airline with a great legacy that goes back to Monroe, Louisiana."
Westmoreland's comments recalled a statement by Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss., in January, when US Airways (LCC - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr - Rating) CEO Doug Parker appeared before the Senate Commerce Committee to defend his proposed acquisition of Delta.


"I must say you are an aggressive suitor," Lott told Parker. "But the lady from the South -- Atlanta -- doesn't seem to want to be forced into this shotgun wedding."
In fact, that hearing provided a strong indication that while a US Airways and Delta merger may have had backing from Wall Street and from hedge funds, it wasn't popular with lawmakers. A week later, it collapsed. Perhaps Westmoreland's comments should serve as a reminder that Congress will get involved if airlines move to consolidate. Not to say there won't be mergers, but clearly regional loyalists and various opponents will have a chance to be heard.
__________________


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General you idiot...you'll never get your greedy hands on our pacific routes period!!

You never know.....that isn't what I have heard from United people....We'll see...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tomct]

I don't see a whole lot of value in a JB/Spirit combo but who knows. I would guess if DAL and NWA merge (sorry, DAL aquires NWA and does with them what they wish because they are the best airline on the face of infinity, and beyond!!!) that UAL would go full court press for CAL, and if that was rejected UAL would go for JB. It would be the perfect fit as USAir still has a joke of an international network that would bring extremely little value to UAL at an extremely high cost. It would give them NY/BOS presence which I think UAL needs to be a global player, but they can get that by snatching up JB a whole lot cheaper and with much, much less bloodshed merger wise. *staple, staple* all the groups and furlough all excess capacity and they're done. Even if that new merger law prohibits a staple, they can still give the bare minimum the law allows, which would still be much less messy than a UAL/USAir merger.

But you are implying DAL is so incredibly strong they can feast at the dinner buffet of the entire industry, while being completely immune from the same happening to them. OK, maybe you're right, but why? Debt to cash? Market cap? Simplifares? Mile High Mohitos? And yes, we all are aware of the MD-80 leases of only 80,000 per month and 9 million dollar MD-90's from China (including engines!) but what exactly makes you so sure Delta is the undisputed king of the merger universe right now?

JB pilots have protection from being stapled to anyone's list in their contracts! Don't see that happening. NEXT!

General, Cmon...Spirit buying JB, now who is smoking crack! I could see JB buying Frontier with a percentage merger, they would give JB the route network out west that JB needs and a westcoast base (DIA) that would allow a TON of growth! We will see.

 

[General Lee]

Too easy......

I don't see a whole lot of value in a JB/Spirit combo but who knows. I would guess if DAL and NWA merge (sorry, DAL aquires NWA and does with them what they wish because they are the best airline on the face of infinity, and beyond!!!) that UAL would go full court press for CAL, and if that was rejected UAL would go for JB. It would be the perfect fit as USAir still has a joke of an international network that would bring extremely little value to UAL at an extremely high cost. It would give them NY/BOS presence which I think UAL needs to be a global player, but they can get that by snatching up JB a whole lot cheaper and with much, much less bloodshed merger wise. *staple, staple* all the groups and furlough all excess capacity and they're done. Even if that new merger law prohibits a staple, they can still give the bare minimum the law allows, which would still be much less messy than a UAL/USAir merger.

But you are implying DAL is so incredibly strong they can feast at the dinner buffet of the entire industry, while being completely immune from the same happening to them. OK, maybe you're right, but why? Debt to cash? Market cap? Simplifares? Mile High Mohitos? And yes, we all are aware of the MD-80 leases of only 80,000 per month and 9 million dollar MD-90's from China (including engines!) but what exactly makes you so sure Delta is the undisputed king of the merger universe right now?

Delta holds key to shape of US fleets

By Justin Baer in New York
Published: January 2 2008 20:45 | Last updated: January 2 2008 20:45

This year could see consolidation in the US airlines industry, with the fate of Delta Air Lines likely to prove pivotal, executives, bankers and investors say.
Delta recently emerged from bankruptcy protection unencumbered by financial agreements that restrict some potential deals, and is not as big as, say, American Airlines parent AMR. As a result, it features prominently in most consolidation scenarios concocted by industry insiders and shareholders alike.
The Atlanta-based carrier is working with its bankers at Merrill Lynch and Greenhill to review potential mergers. Delta’s executives believe a merger would help the combined company save money and weather future downturns. But they are not convinced a deal is worth pursuing at all costs, given the challenges it would pose, from winning the approval of regulators and organised labour to combining complex operations, people familiar with their thinking said.
It may be months before the company decides whe­ther to proceed, they added.
“There has been talk from one corner or another,” said John Prater, president of the Air Line Pilots’ Association, whose 60,000 members include pilots at Delta, United and Northwest.
“Is there going to be consolidation? I think we’re going to see some attempts.”
Richard Anderson, Delta chief executive, fuelled merger speculation in October, when he said the company recognised the benefits of consolidation and planned to participate. His comments appeared to contradict Delta’s stance earlier in the year, when it fought off a hostile bid from rival US Airways.
“Delta has said previously that its board has formed a special committee to work with management to review and analyse strategic options to ensure Delta maintains its leadership position in the industry, including potential consolidation transactions,” the airline said in a statement.
“During this period we will not comment on any rumours or speculation regarding mergers or acquisitions.”
Some of Delta’s peers may have a harder time persuading antitrust regulators to approve any merger. Others would be challenged by existing relationships and financial arrangements. For instance, Northwest has the right to block a deal involving rival Continental Airlines.
Delta’s greater flexibility is not lost on the investors who built positions in the company last year.
Pardus Capital Management, a hedge fund with more than 2 per cent of Delta and a 4.8 per cent stake in United parent UAL has said a Delta-United merger represents the best possible combination of large US airlines.
Airlines are bracing for a difficult year. The International Air Transport Association predicted that industrywide profit will slump this year amid record fuel costs and an expected slump in demand for air travel.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2008


Too easy Ironcityblue. I can support any of my arguments with articles. I think you should try to find some of your own.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Sedona16]

http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSN1130536920080111?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

 

[Fly4hire]

So how can Anderson state that he wants Delta to keep the name and be headquartered in ATL? How do you announce that before a friendly merger? Read the thread I posted from the MSP Star Tribune. And, according to the thread from Sedona16, the ONLY way you can transfer the rights is through an acquisition. (only PAX airlines can do that it seems, not cargo) Read the 5th freedom thread--really interesting stuff that will put you to sleep quickly.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

I forget where - too many articles - but some analysts have predicted the only way DAL would do the deal is stock swap, in which case it is a true merger. Too much debt as it is with DAL as the article goes. FWIW.....

 

[Diesel-9]

The Western acquisition was the beginning of Delta's growth and end to the proud image and southern hospitality. The next 20 years after that they were lead buy numerous teams of lousy management. The demise of Eastern and Pan Am had many pax falling into their airplanes by default and it delayed exposing all their weakness. In the 90's the senior brothers sold out for their own pockets and gave in to the RJ phenomenon. They were almost a year late going CH-11 costing them ton's of cash. But at least the senior boys again got their money and ran again. The kool-aide really works and cost us all. With that kind of brotherhood, who needs enemies. http://www.amazon.com/Delta-Air-Lines-Debunking-Myth/dp/0934601550

 

[Diesel-9]

Follow up reading on DAL, "Airline Without A Pilot". http://www.amazon.com/Airline-Without-Pilot-Leadership-Bankruptcy/dp/0977207617/ref=sid_dp_dp.

 

[GCAP]

PanAm Pacific routs to UAL 1985
PanAm Atlantic routs to DAL 1991
Various Central and South American routs to UAL and DAL
UAL and DAL merge 2008
New name

PANAM

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

Should we at Delduh acquire MWA or UA, and assuming the decision is made to retain the Delta name, I hope they do it a bit different than they did w/ Pan Am. In europe, Delta was realtively unknown. We acquireed Pan Am and the next day everyone w/ Pan Am tickets showed up to fly and were put on the unknown Delta. I hope they educate the locals in Asia and retain the UA/NWA name while also showing DL before totally doing away w/ the old nmae..