Airline Mergers!

[Eagle757shark]

Now that the experts believe consolidation is about to happen. Lets have fun with a few potential combinations!

1. Delta will strike a deal with United. New name will be Delta Airlines. Hubs will be JFK, Atlanta, Chicago, Denver, Los Angeles, San Fransico. Widebody fleet the same. Delta Atlantic routes fit well with United's Pacific routes.

2. US Airways will strike a deal with Northwest. New name will be US Airways. Hubs will be Philadephia, Charlotte, Detroit, MSP, Phoenix, and Las Vegas. Both carriers large Airbus operators. Airbus widebody fleet. US Airways growing Atlantic routes fit well with Northwest's Pacific routes.

3. Continental will strike a deal with Alaska and AirTran. New name will be Continental Airlines. Hubs will be Newark, Atlanta, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Fransico, and Houston. With the new caps on Newark, Atlanta will be domestic relief and feed up and down the east coast. Seattle and Alaska will feed the Pacific routes. Continental strong across the Atlantic and established pacific routes through micronesia.

4. Jetblue will strike a deal with Frontier, Spirit, and Virgin America. New Name will be Virgin America. Hubs will be JFK, Denver, San Fransico, Ft Lauderdale, and Long Beach. Will feed Virgin Atlantic internationally.

5. American will stay American

6. Southwest will remain Southwest

Well these are predicitons just for fun. What are some of yours? Have fun with it folks. Please keep your seniority intergrations out of this.

 

[wscrj]

Not bad...

However, I BELIEVE that in order to keep the freedoms NWA has in Asia, they need to remain NWA.

Plus, I don't think all 4 LCC's will merge...at least one is going away.

But what do I know?.....

 

[General Lee]

Delta will either acquire NWA, or buy part of United (SFO and Asian routes)--while NWA buys United's IAD hub and and European routes, and CAL gets ORD and DEN hubs. Southwest goes for a fire sale and buys Frontier.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

Delta will either acquire NWA, or buy part of United (SFO and Asian routes)--while NWA buys United's IAD hub and and European routes, and CAL gets ORD and DEN hubs. Southwest goes for a fire sale and buys Frontier.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Acquire? I disagree. Merge maybe

 

[KCPilot]

Eagle-

Best I've heard yet! So what do you other Nostradamus pilots have to say? I think Vegas is setting up some bets!

 

[General Lee]

Acquire? I disagree. Merge maybe

So how can Anderson state that he wants Delta to keep the name and be headquartered in ATL? How do you announce that before a friendly merger? Read the thread I posted from the MSP Star Tribune. And, according to the thread from Sedona16, the ONLY way you can transfer the rights is through an acquisition. (only PAX airlines can do that it seems, not cargo) Read the 5th freedom thread--really interesting stuff that will put you to sleep quickly.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tomct]

Delta will either acquire NWA, or buy part of United (SFO and Asian routes)--while NWA buys United's IAD hub and and European routes, and CAL gets ORD and DEN hubs. Southwest goes for a fire sale and buys Frontier.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Well Gen...It has already been said that if you merge with United, Delta goes away right along with SLC and CVG. Why....because NOBODY KNOWS who Delta is in the Orient. You say United, everyone knows! Northwest...same thing! You might lose YOUR name! Good Luck.

 

[General Lee]

Not bad...

However, I BELIEVE that in order to keep the freedoms NWA has in Asia, they need to remain NWA.

Plus, I don't think all 4 LCC's will merge...at least one is going away.

But what do I know?.....

Wrong. Read the thread concerning Northwest's fifth freedom rights. It dispells that rumor about the name.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Well Gen...It has already been said that if you merge with United, Delta goes away right along with SLC and CVG. Why....because NOBODY KNOWS who Delta is in the Orient. You say United, everyone knows! Northwest...same thing! You might lose YOUR name! Good Luck.

Doubtful. Re-read the article--from MSP at that. Anderson will INSIST on keeping the Delta name, and as long as there is an acquistion, you can keep the fifth freedom rights. (Also read the thread about those rights) A PAX Airline can transfer the rights during an ACQUISTION. It has to be an acquistion, not a merger. We could buy United's Asian routes too, and that would be an acquistion.

And, I know Delta isn't as well known in Asia, but it looks like that will change shortly. I think I will do TV commercials for them in my Sub Commander uniform. Can't wait.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tomct]

Wrong. Read the thread concerning Northwest's fifth freedom rights. It dispells that rumor about the name.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Delta's biggest problem is NO NAME RECOGNITION IN THE ORIENT! They need some forward thinkers to get more big airplanes, a much needed base out west to FLY WEST over the Pacific! And I don't mean HNL. UA and NWA have what you don't have....NAME RECOGNITION in the Orient!

 

[regionaltard]

Why....because NOBODY KNOWS who Delta is in the Orient.

everyone knows who Derta is though...didn't they once have a big Trans-Pac operation on the west coast?

 

[General Lee]

Delta's biggest problem is NO NAME RECOGNITION IN THE ORIENT! They need some forward thinkers to get more big airplanes, a much needed base out west to FLY WEST over the Pacific! And I don't mean HNL. UA and NWA have what you don't have....NAME RECOGNITION in the Orient!

How do you know that? We go to NRT and Seoul, and used to go to Hong Kong, Nagoya, Fukuoka, Taipei, and Bangkok. We start Shanghai nonstop to ATL in March. Thanks for your comments though, and maybe you should call up Anderson and tell him your concerns.....?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

everyone knows who Derta is though...didn't they once have a big Trans-Pac operation on the west coast?

Yes we did, out of Portland, OR. We used to fly L1011s and MD11s all over Japan (see my post above) and from LAX and JFK to NRT too (besides PDX). But hey, Tomcat is worried about our name recognition..... How about some advertising....?

By the way, we just got approval (the rights) to fly to New Zealand, Singapore, and even Samoa (Pago Pago). There are also open skies talks going on with Australia and the US right now. I guess we shouldn't go there since we don't have a Kangaroo on the tail.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

So how can Anderson state that he wants Delta to keep the name and be headquartered in ATL? How do you announce that before a friendly merger? Read the thread I posted from the MSP Star Tribune. And, according to the thread from Sedona16, the ONLY way you can transfer the rights is through an acquisition. (only PAX airlines can do that it seems, not cargo) Read the 5th freedom thread--really interesting stuff that will put you to sleep quickly.


Bye Bye--General Lee

So does DAL have the funds to Acquire NWA or any other major carrier? I can see a merger but not an acquisition of one of the big 4.

 

[Tomct]

How do you know that? We go to NRT and Seoul, and used to go to Hong Kong, Nagoya, Fukuoka, Taipei, and Bangkok. We start Shanghai nonstop to ATL in March. Thanks for your comments though, and maybe you should call up Anderson and tell him your concerns.....?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Because I have been there a lot! Everyone know's who NWA and UA are....Delta, Not so much! A single flight everyother day to those area's CANNOT COMPARE to the frequency of the other two. You could tell Delta mgmnt all you want, but if it is not their idea...good luck! They began screwing things up when they bought Western and slashed all of their roots out west...which allowed SWA, AWA and Alaska to EXPLODE on the scene!! Real Smart!

 

[Tomct]

everyone knows who Derta is though...didn't they once have a big Trans-Pac operation on the west coast?

NOPE!! NEVER! Would have been smart after merging with Western, but the "Good Ole Boys" felt there was NO MONEY to be made out west? HUGE MISTAKE!!

 

[General Lee]

So does DAL have the funds to Acquire NWA or any other major carrier? I can see a merger but not an acquisition of one of the big 4.

Ever heard of a loan? Hedge funs can't wait to make huge M&A (Mergers and Acquisition) deals. I don't think anyone can afford to buy another, but banks etc will do what it takes. There is a lot of money to be made by Wall St types, and they know it. Another reason Delta has to make the deal is because most of our employees are non-union, and they need to be protected (seniority wise) from union people at other airlines with contracts. I know there is a bill pending that will not allow staples anymore, but that is another reason. The buying airline can make some rules and create a fair merge for the nonunion types. The pilots all have ALPA, so they would handle that side. Delta is fighting off union drives from several employee groups right now, and they save money with less unions.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

NOPE!! NEVER! Would have been smart after merging with Western, but the "Good Ole Boys" felt there was NO MONEY to be made out west? HUGE MISTAKE!!

They are gone now. Grinstein was the last of the "good ole boys." Anderson stated he will insist on keeping the Delta name, and if he want to buy someone and make us stronger, then he will do it. Every article I have read states Delta will CHOOSE between UAL and NWA, so I would believe that that means we are in the driver's seat. Please give an example of something otherwise. We have a new board of directors and new management.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IronCityBlue]

They are gone now. Grinstein was the last of the "good ole boys." Anderson stated he will insist on keeping the Delta name, and if he want to buy someone and make us stronger, then he will do it. Every article I have read states Delta will CHOOSE between UAL and NWA, so I would believe that that means we are in the driver's seat. Please give an example of something otherwise. We have a new board of directors and new management.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Just because Delta will make that choice, what (other than wishful thinking) makes you so sure United is about to liquidate and Delta isn't? If UAL sold you their Asian routes, they wouldn't be around much longer as that is their biggest crown jewel and would be a clear indication of an impending liquidation. Why couldn't United just acquire your European routes and Shuttle operation, and maybe your JFK hub? That would also be a nice fit for them on par with your prediction, only in their favor. Or is your entire prediction just based on Anderson's pep talks and your team spirit?

 

[Tomct]

They are gone now. Grinstein was the last of the "good ole boys." Anderson stated he will insist on keeping the Delta name, and if he want to buy someone and make us stronger, then he will do it. Every article I have read states Delta will CHOOSE between UAL and NWA, so I would believe that that means we are in the driver's seat. Please give an example of something otherwise. We have a new board of directors and new management.

Bye Bye--General Lee

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7951503
This is one of the articles I found, I am looking for another one that specifically stated with a UA/DAL merger, SLC and CVG would be gone and the name would be UA. ATL would be a focus city, but company hq would be Chicago. Still looking...

 

[Tomct]

I believe that it was Pardus Capital Mgmnt (your biggest BK backer...I THINK) and they are for the merger with UA! Again, still looking.

 

[IronCityBlue]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7951503
This is one of the articles I found, I am looking for another one that specifically stated with a UA/DAL merger, SLC and CVG would be gone and the name would be UA. ATL would be a focus city, but company hq would be Chicago. Still looking...

I remember hearing exactly that as well, but it was during the immediate time frame of the initial Pardus request. I think Pardus may have been injecting their 2 cents into how the end product would look. I don't think any of that was any kind of mandate from anyone at Delta or United because when that article containing that version of the end product was out both Delta and United were denying any talks were going on between them. Why would they deny talks were happening if they had any of the details figured out already? IOW even if that's how it would happen, we wouldn't have found about it from the article you're thinking about anyway. It was just Pardus's (or some other speculator/reporter's) theory of the hour.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Easy fellows, no need to fight over the name. I do believe that when Delta mentioned they were looking at Northwest and United, they were looking to bring another party into this possible tranaction. I believe Delta really favors United as a potential merger partner. However, just like United back in 2000 when it attempted to by US Air, it brought American into the picture. (20% US Air assets and TWA) We all know what happened there. But the idea is to appeal to the regulators. I believe Doug Parker in Phoenix is on the phone with all three parties and that is where the possible link between Northwest and US Airways will come about. I do believe these four airlines will merge into two airlines to start consolidation (DL and UAL, US and NW). What names will be preserved, well ....don't know!

 

[IronCityBlue]

Easy fellows, no need to fight over the name. I do believe that when Delta mentioned they were looking at Northwest and United, they were looking to bring another party into this possible tranaction. I believe Delta really favors United as a potential merger partner. However, just like United back in 2000, when it attempted to by US Air it brought American into the picture. (20% US Air assets and TWA) We all know what happened there. But the idea is to appeal to the regulators. I believe Doug Parker in Phoenix is on the phone with all three parties and that is where the possible link between Northwest and US Airways will come about. I do believe these four airlines will merge into two airlines to start consolidation (DL and UAL, US and NW). What names will be preserved, well ....don't know!

Good theory, except the first line. Fighting over the name is the foundation upon which a good "my airline can beat up your airline" female dog fest is built upon. :smash:

 

[General Lee]

Just because Delta will make that choice, what (other than wishful thinking) makes you so sure United is about to liquidate and Delta isn't? If UAL sold you their Asian routes, they wouldn't be around much longer as that is their biggest crown jewel and would be a clear indication of an impending liquidation. Why couldn't United just acquire your European routes and Shuttle operation, and maybe your JFK hub? That would also be a nice fit for them on par with your prediction, only in their favor. Or is your entire prediction just based on Anderson's pep talks and your team spirit?

Now you are smoking dope. We are stronger than most, and are in position to do something. Tilton wants to sell, and it may be in parts. Where did I get that idea? I got it from a United pilot who told me that was their rumor. Interesting rumor indeed.

Where will Jetblue go? Maybe Spirit will buy you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tomct]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21791526/

This article gives the speculation that I was talking about. Only time will tell!

 

[General Lee]

Easy fellows, no need to fight over the name. I do believe that when Delta mentioned they were looking at Northwest and United, they were looking to bring another party into this possible tranaction. I believe Delta really favors United as a potential merger partner. However, just like United back in 2000 when it attempted to by US Air, it brought American into the picture. (20% US Air assets and TWA) We all know what happened there. But the idea is to appeal to the regulators. I believe Doug Parker in Phoenix is on the phone with all three parties and that is where the possible link between Northwest and US Airways will come about. I do believe these four airlines will merge into two airlines to start consolidation (DL and UAL, US and NW). What names will be preserved, well ....don't know!

Delta favors a United merger? Huh? Not only is there more overlapping of hubs, but also they are a Star Alliance founding member. Their finances are in shambles too. Northwest is a buddy to KLM, owned by Air France, a buddy to us. Even the UBS analyst said that a NWA/DL hook up is better than a 50% chance, and that if that occured CAL would buy United. Those guys have a lot more access to this type of info than you and I do. USAir is watching this carefully no doubt, but they may be left out. Southwest doesn't want them, and American doesn't need them. If CAL does go with United, USAir will be squashed by the shear size of the two mega carriers, and AA will be a distant third in size.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IronCityBlue]

Now you are smoking dope. We are stronger than most, and are in position to do something. Tilton wants to sell, and it may be in parts. Where did I get that idea? I got it from a United pilot who told me that was their rumor. Interesting rumor indeed.

Where will Jetblue go? Maybe Spirit will buy you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I don't see a whole lot of value in a JB/Spirit combo but who knows. I would guess if DAL and NWA merge (sorry, DAL aquires NWA and does with them what they wish because they are the best airline on the face of infinity, and beyond!!!) that UAL would go full court press for CAL, and if that was rejected UAL would go for JB. It would be the perfect fit as USAir still has a joke of an international network that would bring extremely little value to UAL at an extremely high cost. It would give them NY/BOS presence which I think UAL needs to be a global player, but they can get that by snatching up JB a whole lot cheaper and with much, much less bloodshed merger wise. *staple, staple* all the groups and furlough all excess capacity and they're done. Even if that new merger law prohibits a staple, they can still give the bare minimum the law allows, which would still be much less messy than a UAL/USAir merger.

But you are implying DAL is so incredibly strong they can feast at the dinner buffet of the entire industry, while being completely immune from the same happening to them. OK, maybe you're right, but why? Debt to cash? Market cap? Simplifares? Mile High Mohitos? And yes, we all are aware of the MD-80 leases of only 80,000 per month and 9 million dollar MD-90's from China (including engines!) but what exactly makes you so sure Delta is the undisputed king of the merger universe right now?

 

[Yuppyguppy]

General you idiot...you'll never get your greedy hands on our pacific routes period!!

 

[General Lee]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21791526/

This article gives the speculation that I was talking about. Only time will tell!

That is an old article compared to the recent one I gave. Maybe back then they were not talking. Pardus Capital is paying Gordon Bethune to say what he thinks, in line with Pardus most likely. Pardus owns 3% of Delta and 7% of United, and I would assume they would LOVE a merger between the two. Everyone thinks that, it is obvious. After this article came out, Anderson went to Congress to testify about possible delays over the Thanksgiving Weekend. A Georgia Congressman asked him, under oath, if he had been talking to United, and he said no. He also was asked if Delta would ever move the headquarters North or change names, and Anderson said Heck NO. I can give you the article if you want it. Is he lying? If he is, that Congressman will ask for more testimony. He started talks with both NWA and United now to see which airline he could get in a deal, and that could mean parts of an airline. You are right, it will be interesting to watch. Re-read the MSP article about what name could be in the result of a merger--it is more recent.


Bye Bye--General Lee