Airline Mergers!

[General Lee]

My point was a DAL/UAL combination could run an all mainline service in ORD while being much smaller in CVG, same with SLC/DEN...ATL/IAD/JFK.

That seems to me to be an "economies of scale" airline more than DAL/NWA.

Simply my opinion.

I understand you. Goldman Sachs I believe said there would almost be a tie with savings per year with both airlines combined with DL, (around $850 million a year in savings), so I think it next comes down to Alliances. The SkyTeam seems to be the better choice since DL was a founding member, and NWA is a member too---and UAL is a founding member of Star Alliance. That may help make the decision.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CAL EWR B737]

General,

Question. How much time do you spend typing on this board a day, week, month and year? You seem to be a bright, and motivated individual, why not put your intensity to good use? I know your SPC just activated their strike center why not volunteer some of your time to serve your fellow pilots. I am sure you are fully aware that due to the DAL SPC being activated and being so effective is one of the reasons why the US AIRWAYS deal fell apart? With all the talk of mergers I can tell you this, your MEC has mandated that DAL ALPA will be an active part of any merger/acquisition deals. Why not be a part of the solution instead of all the speculating?

I have worked with Mike Donatelli (sp?) and even though he is the National SPSC Chairman I know he could put you to good use in the DAL SPC. However I do know that most SPC's have a hard on for no message board posting and that might be to much of an addiction for you to break.

Frats,

Jayson Baron
CAL ALPA SPSC Strike Preparedness Chairman

 

[On Your Six]

GL might not always be right in his analysis, but you certainly must agree he's passionate about the issues...

In this case pretty good analysis GL, (I agree DAL and NWA make a much better fit because there are fewer hub overlaps than with UAL - fewer hub overlaps means fewer layoffs and political issues) but you need to dial-down the intensity a tad... Sounds like you have a firm grasp of the issues and strategic thinking (beyond just superficial guessing). We need more of that bigger-picture thinking on these boards. However, sometimes the message gets lost on both sides of the fence when the emotion and name-calling increase. Sure, there's provocation on both sides, but the debate/discussion would be more interesting for all if we could separate the emotion from the issues (I understand that's difficult to do when jobs/careers are at stake)...

That's my $0.02. Back to our discussion.

 

[spinup]

Thanks Dad for that diatribe......? Delta is in the drivers seat, and if you don't believe the articles out there, then bring something that proves your points. You can't. I know these writers are subjective sometimes, but they know a lot more of what is happening than you and I. I think you should write emails to those authors and tell them they ARE DREAMING!! Yeah, that's the ticket. They will laugh in your face and delete your mail fast.

As far as United breaking up, I posted that was a rumor I heard from an actual United pilot. And you think United has a better financial picture than Delta? Are you crazy? They did a terrible job in BK getting costs under control, and they have a leader who wants out. They have no plan, and no future orders. They have two hubs (ORD and DEN) that are consistantly closed during bad weather, and they had a terrible holiday season with huge cancellations due to lack of crews, which they blamed on WX. They have no credibility with their own employees, and their customers are ready to go elsewhere, if they can. Sounds wonderful.

And, it is great that you "laugh out loud" every time you see our DL CEO stating we will keep the name of our newly merged carrier if it happens. Hey, it is printed that way, and to say he is lying is saying the author misquoted him. Was he misquoted? To say you know otherwise is really laughable. Only he knows what will happen, and he stated it in the press. You can laugh at me about that, but it is in writing, and you have NOTHING to support that NOT happening. Nothing. If someone asked what a potential name would be--we can point to something tangible (an actual quote) and say "well, he thinks it will stay Delta." You can't say anything otherwise, because you have NOTHING in writing backing you and your silly notion up. Until he says otherwise, we have to think he will go that way. Prove your notion, if you can. (you can't)


AA and NW? Ever thought about which large hub in the Midwest WILL GO if that happens? MSP, ORD, and DTW. Pick one. There would NOT be three large hubs all next to each other. Go ahead smart guy, tell me. It won't happen--too many jobs lost, and the local politicians will be all over that. Even that Credit Suisse analyst said that would be detrimental to AA eventually if that ever happened.

You seem to zero in on the Asia Pacific routes, as if they are the ultimate thing out there. They are nice, and we are adding routes there as fast as we can. But, you seem to forget we at Delta rule the Atlantic, carrying more people across than any carrier (CAL has mostly 757s, while we have mostly widebodies, hence we carry more pax). We also are the only American airline going to Africa, and we are second behind AA going to South America, with a better hub in ATL for connecting (without having to speak Spanish in Miami). We added 50 INTL cities last year alone, and go to Dubai and Mumbai too---both lucrative routes. How about Johanesburg? Ever heard of that? Do you really think we are a regional airline? We also go to Tokyo, Seoul, and soon Shanghai. We are getting more 777 LRs, and we now have rights to Singapore, New Zealand, and Samoa. (Australia is a good bet with current open skies negotiations with that country). If NWA or UAL don't work out, we will probably add service to many places in Asia anyway. You need to really think more before you post. You aren't even close to reality, dad.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Delta underperformed United in regard to margin 4th quarter 07. That is a FACT!!!

I will continue to laugh out loud every time you follow your CEO around like a pathetic lemming.

Delta's Pacific Pales by comparison. You inflate DAL's relative presence. Lets see, would I rather have my fleet deployed to Jo-berg or Shanghai? Please, think margin.

In case you need educating, route authority does not equal profit.

bye - bye Spinup

 

[IronCityBlue]

In a NWA/DL combo, CVG and MEM are likely to be downsized. With a UAL/DL combo--there are questions about IAD next to JFK, ORD next to CVG, and SLC next to DEN, along with joint operations at LAX that currently have many redundant city pairs. Gordon Bafoon doesn't tell you that in his Pardus press releases...

Bye Bye--General Lee

I think the only bloodshed concerns with a DAL/UAL combo are DEN/SLC. I really don't think JFK and IAD have anything whatsoever to do with one another. They may be geographically close like some other hub combos, but New York City and Washington DC are radically different markets each with insane ammounts of O&D, both domestic and international. If there was a UAL/DAL combo, there would be no conflict between JFK and IAD whatsoever other than an RJ bloodbath and a small ammount of international combining. With JFK being slotted, in many cases pulling 50 slots per hour out of last summer's peak (an earth shattering reduction by comparison) in light of the fact that most of that sudden build up was primarily driven by Delta's massive RJ feed infusion to pump up its JFK international ambitions, shifting some of those flights to IAD, shedding redundant, high cost RJ routes and letting JFK breathe a little bit, while at the same time benefitting from the world's best DC international market presence put DAL/UAL in an extremely strong situation over the atlantic.

DAL/UAL would also do extremely well over the Pacific. I don't see a redundant LA hub as a liability, but rather an assett. Delta was smart to build up LAX international like they did, and a DAL/UAL combo in LA is yet another prime opportunity for a large RJ bloodbath as well as, like management always likes to say, "leverging our synergies" (just because Leo liked to say it doesn't make it any less special). :laugh:

The big challenge between a DAL/UAL combo hub wise would be DEN/SLC as you mentioned. Probably no way to make it work unless one was seriously downsized. While neither airline is going to pull out of either, regardless of who (and if anyone at all) they merge with, I could see a combined DAL/UAL (that would be called Delta, because Anderson said so) making the best decision of which one to downsize. With all the carnage in DEN right now, I could see DAL retreat to SLC instead of DEN making it the larger of the two hubs, and a high yield fortress hub in comparison to DEN at the expense of some DEN O&D that was probably going to die off anyway with the 3 way celebrity deathmatch going on at DIA right now as we speak. In any case, neither would close and would always have some kind of network regardless.

 

[General Lee]

General,

Question. How much time do you spend typing on this board a day, week, month and year? You seem to be a bright, and motivated individual, why not put your intensity to good use? I know your SPC just activated their strike center why not volunteer some of your time to serve your fellow pilots. I am sure you are fully aware that due to the DAL SPC being activated and being so effective is one of the reasons why the US AIRWAYS deal fell apart? With all the talk of mergers I can tell you this, your MEC has mandated that DAL ALPA will be an active part of any merger/acquisition deals. Why not be a part of the solution instead of all the speculating?

I have worked with Mike Donatelli (sp?) and even though he is the National SPSC Chairman I know he could put you to good use in the DAL SPC. However I do know that most SPC's have a hard on for no message board posting and that might be to much of an addiction for you to break.

Frats,

Jayson Baron
CAL ALPA SPSC Strike Preparedness Chairman

Jayson,

Thanks for the concern, but I am doing just fine. Really. I enjoy this board, and I do spend plenty of time with the ones I love. I do support my union and I am on watch for any help they need at our SPC. My large post total is due to my responding to every post directed at me, and I am now even closer to 10,000 posts thanks to you. Have a great day.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jke406]

and I am now even closer to 10,000 posts thanks to you. Have a great day.

actually, you are well over 10,000 posts when you count your other screen names: 737Pylt, JMoney, Scope Out RJs, just for starters.

Congratulations on your pending accomplishment.

 

[General Lee]

Delta underperformed United in regard to margin 4th quarter 07. That is a FACT!!!

I will continue to laugh out loud every time you follow your CEO around like a pathetic lemming.

Delta's Pacific Pales by comparison. You inflate DAL's relative presence. Lets see, would I rather have my fleet deployed to Jo-berg or Shanghai? Please, think margin.

In case you need educating, route authority does not equal profit.

bye - bye Spinup

Quit laughing out loud so much, your old neighbors are starting to wonder....

Our ATL-DAKAR--JOBERG route is one of our best in terms of yields. In fact, we have upgraded it from a 767-300ER to a 767-400ER for the cargo and pax. Shanghai is looking great in bookings too, and Dubai is a money winner. Our first 777LR will be deployed on the JFK-BOM route thanks to the high need for cargo along with pax on that route, and a 777ER will be put on the PVG route.

As far as our name regognition in Asia, I bet it is less than UAL's or NWA's. It took awhile to get our name out there in Europe after we bought the Pan Am routes. It will take awhile, but it will be worth it. Keep laughing Jacko.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

actually, you are well over 10,000 posts when you count your other screen names: 737Pylt, JMoney, Scope Out RJs, just for starters.

Congratulations on your pending accomplishment. I'm sure "the ones you love" will be thrilled for you, too.

According to you, I have hit 40,000 posts. Wow, that is wonderful! All my identities are shaking hands right now. You are sooo smart Jke!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Eagle757shark]

Sources say that the deals will probable be stock exchanges, no one is interested in taking on additional debt, meaning true mergers. I believe the initial wave of consolidation will see Delta and United merge, then Northwest and US Airways will merge. The reports keeping talking about three carriers. I believe US Airways will be talking too. In 2008 4 legacy carriers will be reduced by 2.