Air Wisconsin Vs. Pinnacle

[skychicken]

I have recently received job offers from both AWAC and Pinnacle. I could use ANY info to help me make my decision! Thanks!

 

[BE90flyer]

Are you joking?

 

[MotoXXX]

Is there really any Question here?

 

[IHaveAPension]

Pinnacle for sure. More growth.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Pinnacle for sure. More growth.

More growth?? Hows that. I'd say in terms of growth these two are neck to neck at close to..........NONE. More bodies to climb at PCL.....I guess you can take that into concideration.

People are always throwing up these X verses Y things and never giving any information on what's important to them in their situation.

How about you tell us what attracted you to both in the first place. The Pros and Cons as you see them....then maybe people can help you fine tune your particular situation.


Piker

 

[Rook]

Depends on several things...where would you like to be based? There's a better corporate culture at Willy. Does the United/USAir thing scare you? Do you mind a slow upgrade? Let's go to the scorecards...

I score it 115 to 113 for AW.

Contract negotiations won't be very pretty here at 9E. Especially under umbrella of the evil red empire. Good luck whatever you choose.

Rook

 

[J32driver]

I work for AWAC. I've had friends that worked at 9E.

9E is pretty much done growing. AWAC is done for the moment, but that may change in the future. The company is currently participating in the 90 seat bidding with USAirways. They are trying to avoid trading 50 seaters for 90 seaters. They want to grow the fleet. Not stay the same size.

I don't know anything about attrition at 9E. At AWAC, we are starting to lose lots of people to other airlines. Captains are leaving for every large airline that is hiring. Some others have decided they don't want to commute to the east coast and are leaving the industry all together. Long story short, I would expect that AWAC would provide more upward mobility than 9E.

Corporate culture is a BIG deal in this one. AWAC is a very well run company from the standpoint of a pilot. My planes are well maintained, I have a pretty good contract, my dispatchers are top notch, and the pilot managers truly try to do right by the pilot group. I know that this company won't try to force me into doing something illegal or unsafe. As a pilot, I feel very well supported in my day to day operations. Its not all roses. We are currently displacing the entire company and the scheduling department can be difficult to deal with (managers fault, not the individual schedulers). But, all in all, its a good place to hang your hat.

I've heard that 9E is a little bit more of a day to day battle in order to go out and fly the planes.

The last piece of the puzzle, where do you want to live? Commuting sucks. It takes up a ton of your off time and induces more stress into your life than you would imagine. If you want to live in MEM, DTW, or MSP, then go work for 9E. If you want to live someplace on the east coast, then come work for Air Willy.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

AWAC vs Pinnacle

AWAC, 3rd Round TKO

 

[crashpad]

I have a buudy who's a very senior Capt. at Pinnacle and the best he can do now for days off is 12 a month! I checked his back for lash marks.

 

[WSurf]

Just be cautious of most of the 50 seat RJ operators that don't have 70-90 seat growth in sight! Most (50 Seat Rj's) will be parked in the desert in the next 5-8 years!! I will see if I can find the article I read about all the 50 Jets..
So I would shoot for someone that has atleast a 2 year upgrade... Get your PIC time and find yourself a much better job... Good Luck!

 

[FlyinPiker]

Just be cautious of most of the 50 seat RJ operators that don't have 70-90 seat growth in sight! Most (50 Seat Rj's) will be parked in the desert in the next 5-8 years!!!

I'm pretty sure that's why airlines like Air Wisconsin have locked these airlines in with contracts that require these planes.....or at least a certain fleet number for what I believe is 12 years. PCL I'm sure has a pretty decent length service agreement not to mention NW owns all the airplanes. Can these carriers that are leading the way in the 70 seat arena guarantee that future airplane delieveries are growth and not replacements.

Just like Wsurf said.....50 seaters are going to the desert. If Air Wisconsin and PCL are protected.......who's do you thinks are going to go there first???? I'd say the 50 seat fleets of both PCL and Air Wis are safe.....for now.

I'm not trying to jack the thread....but all these CHQ guys riding the ride at disneyland over there need to wake the f up.

Piker

 

[Maiko]

You forgot about how great the maintenance controllers are

Corporate culture is a BIG deal in this one. AWAC is a very well run company from the standpoint of a pilot. My planes are well maintained, I have a pretty good contract, my dispatchers are top notch, and the pilot managers truly try to do right by the pilot group. I know that this company won't try to force me into doing something illegal or unsafe. As a pilot, I feel very well supported in my day to day operations. Its not all roses. We are currently displacing the entire company and the scheduling department can be difficult to deal with (managers fault, not the individual schedulers). But, all in all, its a good place to hang your hat.

 

[IHaveAPension]

Pinnacle has cuter pilots.

 

[noonan]

Hey confused;
Good question, answer, go into construction. 9E is not even a rational choice for a sentient being. 9E is not going to grow in the next 5 years. They are done. All flying will go to companies that can keep airplanes in the air. The only thing that should be in the infield in MKE should be a shotstop, NOT SOMETHING WITH WINGLETS!
Good luck. Get out of aviation.

 

[se1776]

don't go to AWAC go to Pinnacle

 

[lionflyer]

As far as I know AWAC's growth is done also, but the attrition is thru the roof right now. We have lost 145 this year. You do the math. You might move up the list quicker than you think if you don't mind being based out east. I think we have more growth potential than Pinnacle. Right now we are on the brink of cancelling flights because of lack of crews, so any growth will just make matters worse.

 

[J32driver]

You forgot about how great the maintenance controllers are

Didn't forget. My momma just told me "if you can't say anything nice... don't say anything." Most of those guys are pretty good. There is only 1 that I've dealt with who obviously hates his life. I save all of my tray table write-ups for him.

 

[DiverDriver]

Most of those guys are pretty good. There is only 1 that I've dealt with who obviously hates his life. I save all of my tray table write-ups for him.

You too?

 

[eastflier]

Without a doubt pinnacle. I have several freinds that are at AWCA and don;t get me wrong they love the company however they have been sitting on pins and needles the past year. There is just alot of things up in the air right now. Plus what guarantee do they have that they will grow with usair when the merger goes thru when there are companies that can easily underbid them.

They are a good company however lets face it it comes down to who has the best offer and during these financial times AWAC may just be to costly for airways to expand.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Without a doubt pinnacle. I have several freinds that are at AWCA and don;t get me wrong they love the company however they have been sitting on pins and needles the past year. There is just alot of things up in the air right now. Plus what guarantee do they have that they will grow with usair when the merger goes thru when there are companies that can easily underbid them.

They are a good company however lets face it it comes down to who has the best offer and during these financial times AWAC may just be to costly for airways to expand.

Those were all cons about AWAC....if you are saying "without a doubt Pinnacle" lets hear some "rosey" pros about what the future holds for Pinnacle. I still think it's a toss up....and one that sides toward AWAC. By the time you went to AWAC most of the pins and needles cr.ap will have already occured. From what I know bases have already been decided and contracts have been signed securing flying.

I think Pinnacle offers job security....but it also offers a very large seniority list that you will be at the bottom of and a sad looking contract compared to alot of the language/$$ making numbers that AWAC has. The question you have to ask yourself is where can you stand to be a F/O for the next 4 years, because that's what your possibly looking at when you go to both of these carriers.

Piker

 

[FranktheTank]

Your seriuosly kidding me, right.

Yeah dude, go work for pinnacle. Stand up for what is right in this industry. Horse $hit pay, worse contract, and even better work rules. The pay is absolutely garbage, worse than Mesuck. The work rules don't exist. I can't believe your even comparing 9e with ZW. If you want to contribute to the ongoing downward spiral at the regional level, head right over to Pinnacle. Get treated like a no talent a$$ clown on a daily basis. I guess its whats more important to you. A quick upgrade, or being able to respect yourself at the end of the day for standing up with some sack in this industry which basically doesn't happen anymore. Not a rip on you, just all the other rif raf that keep killing our industry. Theres always Go blah blah Jets too...
Chumps!

 

[wheelsup]

Plus what guarantee do they have that they will grow with usair when the merger goes thru when there are companies that can easily underbid them.

I *believe* they signed a 10 year contract. AWAC was happy with it, enough to put the $125 mil into them. It wasn't a 3 to 5 year deal, I'm sure of that.


~wheelsup

 

[rightrudder]

Without a doubt pinnacle. I have several freinds that are at AWCA and don;t get me wrong they love the company however they have been sitting on pins and needles the past year. There is just alot of things up in the air right now. Plus what guarantee do they have that they will grow with usair when the merger goes thru when there are companies that can easily underbid them.

They are a good company however lets face it it comes down to who has the best offer and during these financial times AWAC may just be to costly for airways to expand.

When NWA declares BK in the next month, do you think pinnacle won't be on pins and needles?

 

[Maiko]

Say anything nice? With only one that hates life? I know who that is, and we feel the same way, but to group us all into one because of one...mmmmm sounds familier...all pilots are...

Didn't forget. My momma just told me "if you can't say anything nice... don't say anything." Most of those guys are pretty good. There is only 1 that I've dealt with who obviously hates his life. I save all of my tray table write-ups for him.

 

[PCL_128]

When NWA declares BK in the next month, do you think pinnacle won't be on pins and needles?

Worst case scenario: NW declares BK and is able to change Pinnacle's profit margins down to 4-6 percent. Pinnacle is already the lowest-cost regional in the business. NW can't possibly get a better deal from any other regional. Without NW being able to prove that they can save money with another regional, the judge will never approve the breaking of the current Air Service Agreement. I can assure you that none of us are on pins and needles.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Worst case scenario: NW declares BK and is able to change Pinnacle's profit margins down to 4-6 percent. Pinnacle is already the lowest-cost regional in the business. NW can't possibly get a better deal from any other regional. Without NW being able to prove that they can save money with another regional, the judge will never approve the breaking of the current Air Service Agreement. I can assure you that none of us are on pins and needles.

Concidering NW owns PCL I seriously doubt that the above poster was trying to imply that PCL was in danger of losing it's Air Service Agreement.

Pins and Needles can mean alot of things.....espeacially when you are in contract negotiations.

Piker

 

[PCL_128]

Concidering NW owns PCL I seriously doubt that the above poster was trying to imply that PCL was in danger of losing it's Air Service Agreement.

Pins and Needles can mean alot of things.....espeacially when you are in contract negotiations.

Piker

NW doesn't own Pinnacle anymore. They haven't in several years. Pinnacle is a publicly traded company. Again, I can assure you that we are not on pins and needles in any way.

My recommendation? Come to Pinnacle. The job security is pretty good here, and the abominable pay and work rules will be corrected with the next contract. Life will suck for the first couple of years with the terrible pay and work rules, but it will get better and you won't have to worry about losing your job. I'm not so sure that you can say the same thing about most other regionals.

 

[another cfii]

From our scoop in Memphis, at PCL, we are losing lots of FO these days to other airlines, aka ExpressJet, Skywest... just to name a few. I'd say we're losing about 15-20 a month. And that is why our training dept is very busy for the unforseen future. We have about 1200 bodies right now, and we are still about 200 shy of what our mgmt wants! And that's with our way understaffed tradition.

With our new VP of flt op on board, they've put in $200 a week plus hotel, and last I heard, they will start to give signing bonus to new hire as well soon.

Now the bad side of PCL, we've started contract negotiation with mgmt, and so far several sections has been solved, but it's still a long and uphill battle for us. I can say for the most of us our FO pay will be on our top priority, besides QOL. Of course there're better regionals out there, but hey, reserve ain't too bad if you live in base. Just my 2 cents...

 

[FlyinPiker]

......................the abominable pay and work rules will be corrected with the next contract............... Life will suck for the first couple of years with the terrible pay and work rules........

Thank you for the correction! I didn't realize they turned you guys lose. Either way, my statement that they owned you was suppose to be a plus......I believe they own the airplanes or something like that right?? Either way.....I'm with you, I doubt they'd want to shoot themselves in the foot. I don't believe PCL will be losing flying.

As for your casual "things will get better in the next contract"....and "you only have to be miserable for the first couple years". Keep advertising that! We all know that working under the Red Tail they just love to give everybody what they want and they hate to see employees unhappy. 9E guys (that have been there over 5 years), Mesaba guys, and NW guys would all TOTALLY support that statement.

I'm not saying going to 9E is a bad move, I'm just saying I haven't heard an arguement that would convince me to go there yet. He.ll it would take alot for me to go to any regional at this point.

Piker

 

[PDdownto4]

Go with pinnacle.