Air Wisconsin Vs. Pinnacle

[FranktheTank]

Your seriuosly kidding me, right.

Yeah dude, go work for pinnacle. Stand up for what is right in this industry. Horse $hit pay, worse contract, and even better work rules. The pay is absolutely garbage, worse than Mesuck. The work rules don't exist. I can't believe your even comparing 9e with ZW. If you want to contribute to the ongoing downward spiral at the regional level, head right over to Pinnacle. Get treated like a no talent a$$ clown on a daily basis. I guess its whats more important to you. A quick upgrade, or being able to respect yourself at the end of the day for standing up with some sack in this industry which basically doesn't happen anymore. Not a rip on you, just all the other rif raf that keep killing our industry. Theres always Go blah blah Jets too...
Chumps!

 

[wheelsup]

Plus what guarantee do they have that they will grow with usair when the merger goes thru when there are companies that can easily underbid them.

I *believe* they signed a 10 year contract. AWAC was happy with it, enough to put the $125 mil into them. It wasn't a 3 to 5 year deal, I'm sure of that.


~wheelsup

 

[rightrudder]

Without a doubt pinnacle. I have several freinds that are at AWCA and don;t get me wrong they love the company however they have been sitting on pins and needles the past year. There is just alot of things up in the air right now. Plus what guarantee do they have that they will grow with usair when the merger goes thru when there are companies that can easily underbid them.

They are a good company however lets face it it comes down to who has the best offer and during these financial times AWAC may just be to costly for airways to expand.

When NWA declares BK in the next month, do you think pinnacle won't be on pins and needles?

 

[Maiko]

Say anything nice? With only one that hates life? I know who that is, and we feel the same way, but to group us all into one because of one...mmmmm sounds familier...all pilots are...

Didn't forget. My momma just told me "if you can't say anything nice... don't say anything." Most of those guys are pretty good. There is only 1 that I've dealt with who obviously hates his life. I save all of my tray table write-ups for him.

 

[PCL_128]

When NWA declares BK in the next month, do you think pinnacle won't be on pins and needles?

Worst case scenario: NW declares BK and is able to change Pinnacle's profit margins down to 4-6 percent. Pinnacle is already the lowest-cost regional in the business. NW can't possibly get a better deal from any other regional. Without NW being able to prove that they can save money with another regional, the judge will never approve the breaking of the current Air Service Agreement. I can assure you that none of us are on pins and needles.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Worst case scenario: NW declares BK and is able to change Pinnacle's profit margins down to 4-6 percent. Pinnacle is already the lowest-cost regional in the business. NW can't possibly get a better deal from any other regional. Without NW being able to prove that they can save money with another regional, the judge will never approve the breaking of the current Air Service Agreement. I can assure you that none of us are on pins and needles.

Concidering NW owns PCL I seriously doubt that the above poster was trying to imply that PCL was in danger of losing it's Air Service Agreement.

Pins and Needles can mean alot of things.....espeacially when you are in contract negotiations.

Piker

 

[PCL_128]

Concidering NW owns PCL I seriously doubt that the above poster was trying to imply that PCL was in danger of losing it's Air Service Agreement.

Pins and Needles can mean alot of things.....espeacially when you are in contract negotiations.

Piker

NW doesn't own Pinnacle anymore. They haven't in several years. Pinnacle is a publicly traded company. Again, I can assure you that we are not on pins and needles in any way.

My recommendation? Come to Pinnacle. The job security is pretty good here, and the abominable pay and work rules will be corrected with the next contract. Life will suck for the first couple of years with the terrible pay and work rules, but it will get better and you won't have to worry about losing your job. I'm not so sure that you can say the same thing about most other regionals.

 

[another cfii]

From our scoop in Memphis, at PCL, we are losing lots of FO these days to other airlines, aka ExpressJet, Skywest... just to name a few. I'd say we're losing about 15-20 a month. And that is why our training dept is very busy for the unforseen future. We have about 1200 bodies right now, and we are still about 200 shy of what our mgmt wants! And that's with our way understaffed tradition.

With our new VP of flt op on board, they've put in $200 a week plus hotel, and last I heard, they will start to give signing bonus to new hire as well soon.

Now the bad side of PCL, we've started contract negotiation with mgmt, and so far several sections has been solved, but it's still a long and uphill battle for us. I can say for the most of us our FO pay will be on our top priority, besides QOL. Of course there're better regionals out there, but hey, reserve ain't too bad if you live in base. Just my 2 cents...

 

[FlyinPiker]

......................the abominable pay and work rules will be corrected with the next contract............... Life will suck for the first couple of years with the terrible pay and work rules........

Thank you for the correction! I didn't realize they turned you guys lose. Either way, my statement that they owned you was suppose to be a plus......I believe they own the airplanes or something like that right?? Either way.....I'm with you, I doubt they'd want to shoot themselves in the foot. I don't believe PCL will be losing flying.

As for your casual "things will get better in the next contract"....and "you only have to be miserable for the first couple years". Keep advertising that! We all know that working under the Red Tail they just love to give everybody what they want and they hate to see employees unhappy. 9E guys (that have been there over 5 years), Mesaba guys, and NW guys would all TOTALLY support that statement.

I'm not saying going to 9E is a bad move, I'm just saying I haven't heard an arguement that would convince me to go there yet. He.ll it would take alot for me to go to any regional at this point.

Piker

 

[PDdownto4]

Go with pinnacle.

 

[WSurf]

Contract this, Contract That!!! Work rules this, work rules that!!! I work for PDT and we have a good contract and decent pay!! But we all work for crappy regional airlines!!!!! My airline is better then your airline. No mines better!! I fell into that frame of thinking also... But it all sucks!! One year this regionals the best... the next year they suck!!! They all suck!!! The industry Sucks!!! Passangers Suck!!! Suck, Suck, Suck!!!!
Just go somewhere with a fast upgrade... Go to some other sucky mid level airline and one day hope to make 150k a year..
Enjoy this sucky profession we have all chosen!!!

Okay... too much Capt Morgen and Coke!!! Good night!!! And guess what? We all suck!!

 

[PCL_128]

As for your casual "things will get better in the next contract"....and "you only have to be miserable for the first couple years". Keep advertising that! We all know that working under the Red Tail they just love to give everybody what they want and they hate to see employees unhappy. 9E guys (that have been there over 5 years), Mesaba guys, and NW guys would all TOTALLY support that statement.

I'm certainly not saying that things will be easy with this next contract. It might happen quickly, or it might take 3 years, but things will get better. In all honesty, negotiations have been going very well so far. We have TA'd more sections in 8 months than ASA has in 3 years. In the end, things will get a lot better and you get the good job security in the mean time. Job security at AWAC is iffy at this point IMHO. What good is a decent relationship with management if you don't have any job security?

 

[eastflier]

Yeah I know that AWAC signed a new contract for 10 years but let me ask this question to those who know. It is a contract with the old Usairways right. When the merger goes thru what type of relationship does AWAC have with america West who will be running the show.

Also if the new Usairways asks AWAC to GROW just like united did will they turn it down and jepordize their codeshare again.

Last time I checked just about ever major airline is bankrupt or on the verge of being bankrupt so working for northwest isn;t any different then usairways.

 

[XJslave]

Yeah I know that AWAC signed a new contract for 10 years but let me ask this question to those who know. It is a contract with the old Usairways right. When the merger goes thru what type of relationship does AWAC have with america West who will be running the show.

Also if the new Usairways asks AWAC to GROW just like united did will they turn it down and jepordize their codeshare again.

Last time I checked just about ever major airline is bankrupt or on the verge of being bankrupt so working for northwest isn;t any different then usairways.

No, It's a contract with the old and the new USairways. AWAC is the 2nd largest share holder in the new USairways and we have a seat on the board. I would not go to 9E if you care about QOL. Having worked for the other redtail regional I wouldn't go anywhere near a redtail during contract talks, unless you have a big tube of KY.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Also if the new Usairways asks AWAC to GROW just like united did will they turn it down and jepordize their codeshare again.

.

Lets see the owners of AWAC were ignorant in not spilling out MORE of their own money to buy new airplanes with 15-20 year leases for a bankrupt airline with no plan of action that only wanted to sign a contract with them for 5 years.

I don't think AWAC is against growing, but they are against putting their profits at risks. When your a privately held company, it's your money to lose.

Piker

 

[FlyinPiker]

This may help your decision.......

Apparently Norfolk, VA is going to be staffed at around 200 pilots. This is out of 750-800 some pilots. Unless you live in Norfolk, wouldn't mind moving to Norfolk, or live in a city that has a nice little bundle of flights to Norfolk, I'd go to Pinnacle.

Doesn't look like there would be much chance of escaping ORF anytime soon unless you wanted to sit bottom lineholder or reserve in PHL or DCA.

Piker

 

[wheelsup]

Doesn't look like there would be much chance of escaping ORF anytime soon unless you wanted to sit bottom lineholder or reserve in PHL or DCA.

Piker

I'm betting its going to go senior, it'll become the 'new' appleton.

~wheelsup

 

[XJslave]

I'm betting its going to go senior, it'll become the 'new' appleton.

~wheelsup

I think so too. It's a nice place as long as you don't mind all the military guys, and lack of women.

 

[Shocker]

If you can stomach a 9 month long winter, come over to 9E...good things on the horizon.

 

[pilotmyf]

I have recently received job offers from both AWAC and Pinnacle. I could use ANY info to help me make my decision! Thanks!

just f'ing pick one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!