Air Force to UAL New Hire

[AirCobra]

So, discriminatory hiring was still going on in 2000? I guess AC is correct!

Sorry the actual numbers just don't back up your anecdotes. I guess 91% white male was just not good enough for you.

 

[Tripower455]

Sorry the actual numbers just don't back up your anecdotes. I guess 91% white male was just not good enough for you.

I guess 500 = 7000 in your world too........

What % of minorities that applied got turned down?

What was that ratio compared to white males?

I'll bet the acceptance rate for them was much higher than 91%. In my anecdotal world, the ones that didn't get hired was one in 30 or so.

 

[DCAA320]

I have flown with 2 females in ten years.

What's wrong with you guys? I want to fly with a girl.


Just for the record, the old white men in the Navy hated female pilots and made it well known. Some were instructors, so how could they give them a fair shake?

 

[waveflyer]

My thoughts exactly DCA

 

[waveflyer]

"Some Air Force pilots are getting 800 flying hours before they get transferred to fly unmanned vehicles, Calkins said.

"It's very hard for guys to meet that 1,000-hour mark in one tour," he said.

For the pilots who do have enough time under their belts, their military service is a huge benefit with Southwest, Calkins said. Airmen have college degrees that are "hugely desired" and years of solid leadership experience that bodes well for them moving from co-pilot to pilot."

Is the 45% skewed by air tran?

Rocky is a stand up guy- but he's also an F15 pilot. Who happens to be manager of hiring when SWA's biggest problem pilots are f15 drivers.

The above paragraph screams out for a little levity. We ought not take pilots with less than 1000TPIC- but I don't see how that shouldn't be flexible.

Honestly, if pilots are getting stuck at 500-900 TPIC in a fighter before taking on drones or other duties, why is THAT DQing them. It's to create an illusion of equality when backgrounds are not equal. That extra few hundred hours of F-teen isn't going to make them better airline pilots- I'd rather have a fighter pilot be fully qualified for the job after 500 TPIC knowing that it's other military factors that makes the experience worthwhile - and go get some FO time in 121 ops to make up for every hour of TPIC they're missing.

Seriously, how much stronger would an applicant be with 500 TPIC in Air Force fighters and 1000 hours of 121 time, than the guy who spends another 5 years of Air Force only trying to get to that magical 1000 turbine PIC mark?

 

[Tripower455]

I have flown with 2 females in ten years.

What's wrong with you guys? I want to fly with a girl.

It wasn't for lack of trying on the part of the airlines, as females have been getting preferential treatment in the hiring process for roughly 2 decades.

Could it be that there's just not that many females that are interested in being a pilot?

Just for the record, the old white men in the Navy hated female pilots and made it well known. Some were instructors, so how could they give them a fair shake?

That is 100% wrong and should not be tolerated.

Equal is equal.

 

[Just thinking]

Nobody should have a job if they have not flown helicopters for a minimum of 1000 hours.

 

[AirCobra]

Could it be that there's just not that many females that are interested in being a pilot?

And why would that be? When the white male pilot community has been so welcoming and accepting. You highlight the contradictions in your own posts. Nice going.

 

[Tripower455]

And why would that be?

When the white male pilot community has been so welcoming and accepting.

Ahh, so it's the old "white devil's" fault that certain people don't choose certain professions....... This might've been the case 40+ years ago, but certainly not today.

Please.

You highlight the contradictions in your own posts. Nice going.

What contradictions have I highlighted?

I've maintained that discrimination is wrong, regardless of who's being discriminated against.

You've been arguing against me for 2 days now, so you obviously endorse and agree with discriminatory hiring, IE: people getting hired, or not, solely based on their race or sex while bypassing exponentially more qualified people who are the "wrong" race or color.

How does it feel to be a racist/sexist in this day and age?

 

[AirCobra]

Ahh, so it's the old "white devil's" fault that certain people don't choose certain professions....... This might've been the case 40+ years ago, but certainly not today.

Please.




What contradictions have I highlighted?

I've maintained that discrimination is wrong, regardless of who's being discriminated against.

You've been arguing against me for 2 days now, so you obviously endorse and agree with discriminatory hiring, IE: people getting hired, or not, solely based on their race or sex while bypassing exponentially more qualified people who are the "wrong" race or color.

How does it feel to be a racist/sexist in this day and age?

Well why don't more women apply. I have asked this question three times now. If it's not the case today the numbers sure don't reflect it.

 

[AirCobra]

Nobody should have a job if they have not flown helicopters for a minimum of 1000 hours.

The airlines could sure use some real pilots.
:beer:

 

[AirCobra]

"Some Air Force pilots are getting 800 flying hours before they get transferred to fly unmanned vehicles, Calkins said.

"It's very hard for guys to meet that 1,000-hour mark in one tour," he said.

For the pilots who do have enough time under their belts, their military service is a huge benefit with Southwest, Calkins said. Airmen have college degrees that are "hugely desired" and years of solid leadership experience that bodes well for them moving from co-pilot to pilot."

Is the 45% skewed by air tran?

Rocky is a stand up guy- but he's also an F15 pilot. Who happens to be manager of hiring when SWA's biggest problem pilots are f15 drivers.

The above paragraph screams out for a little levity. We ought not take pilots with less than 1000TPIC- but I don't see how that shouldn't be flexible.

Honestly, if pilots are getting stuck at 500-900 TPIC in a fighter before taking on drones or other duties, why is THAT DQing them. It's to create an illusion of equality when backgrounds are not equal. That extra few hundred hours of F-teen isn't going to make them better airline pilots- I'd rather have a fighter pilot be fully qualified for the job after 500 TPIC knowing that it's other military factors that makes the experience worthwhile - and go get some FO time in 121 ops to make up for every hour of TPIC they're missing.

Seriously, how much stronger would an applicant be with 500 TPIC in Air Force fighters and 1000 hours of 121 time, than the guy who spends another 5 years of Air Force only trying to get to that magical 1000 turbine PIC mark?

F-15E's are two seaters. Just sayin.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

This is well said^^^
A lot of that was well earned-

Plus low minimums always exist so that a well deserving captain's kid or intern could slide in- I don't begrudge that

It's certainly not for affirmative action- those are entirely different rules and regulators

I'm waiting for affirmative action for people who wear glasses. They were discriminated against. Many didn't even take up flying. Many couldn't get into the military.
It's time to make this right. Lower qualifications for the spectacled.
Young kids today need to see pilots with glasses.

 

[Tripower455]

Well why don't more women apply.

You tell me?

I have asked this question three times now.

I've answered the same way, three times now. I'll say it a 4th time. I have no clue.

If you think they don't choose it because they are treated poorly in an airline environment, I suggest you actually speak to a few of them and get the real scoop.

If it's not the case today the numbers sure don't reflect it.

You've deduced, that in spite of decades of "sweetening" the airline career pot for non white males, and there are still a disproportionate percentage of white males in the airline profession, that somehow, it must be the white male's fault that non white males aren't pursuing this career.

Okay..........

 

[Jetjockey]

Ahhhh. So nice to see arguments of who is and isn't qualified for major airline jobs. Reminds me of the 1990's.

At least the major airlines are hiring. Good luck to all looking to move on to new opportunities.

 

[waveflyer]

F-15E's are two seaters. Just sayin.

Which is still as similar as helicopters are as far as 121 ops go

 

[waveflyer]

No trip, I'm saying you could take out all te minorities and women out of all the classes and you'd get hired a week earlier than you would now-

To this day I've never had a black pilot in a new hire class. I've never had more than 3 women in a new hire class.

If affirmative action is causing you any heartburn, you really don't know the history at places like United (think worse than Anchorman I- basically flipping the bird to regulators on providing any opportunity to minorities and women- and yes- go hit up a Tuskegee airman conference and you'll meet the gentlemen who had to sue to become the first black major airline pilots) and you don't understand the modern numbers-

Every slot in every class is valuable, but you do sound like a dick when over 90% of all new hires are still white males-
You assume that there aren't old guard pilots who don't believe women and minorities should fly- and that there aren't a LOT of barriers for those people that we don't deal with-

91% is the number that AC uses- that fluctuates at every airline- but in the mean-

If you can't get a job when 91% of new hires are you? The problem isn't anywhere but in the mirror my man-

It's competitive - which is good

Where I call BS on is that I hear almost no pilots squawk about captains kids, or previous employees or interns who get hooked up with the same qualifications as women and minorities

Why is that?

Why does it offend you to no end if a black guy or woman gets an early opportunity, but it doesn't if a white male gets one through family or internship?

Might want to look at that man

Historically airlines hire the same or more of those types as they do affirmative action

 

[DCAA320]

No trip, I'm saying you could take out all te minorities and women out of all the classes and you'd get hired a week earlier than you would now-

To this day I've never had a black pilot in a new hire class. I've never had more than 3 women in a new hire class.

If affirmative action is causing you any heartburn, you really don't know the history at places like United (think worse than Anchorman I- basically flipping the bird to regulators on providing any opportunity to minorities and women- and yes- go hit up a Tuskegee airman conference and you'll meet the gentlemen who had to sue to become the first black major airline pilots) and you don't understand the modern numbers-

Every slot in every class is valuable, but you do sound like a dick when over 90% of all new hires are still white males-
You assume that there aren't old guard pilots who don't believe women and minorities should fly- and that there aren't a LOT of barriers for those people that we don't deal with-

91% is the number that AC uses- that fluctuates at every airline- but in the mean-

If you can't get a job when 91% of new hires are you? The problem isn't anywhere but in the mirror my man-

It's competitive - which is good

Where I call BS on is that I hear almost no pilots squawk about captains kids, or previous employees or interns who get hooked up with the same qualifications as women and minorities

Why is that?

Why does it offend you to no end if a black guy or woman gets an early opportunity, but it doesn't if a white male gets one through family or internship?

Might want to look at that man

Historically airlines hire the same or more of those types as they do affirmative action

Its 8 PM and I am gonna have to put the whiskey down coz I am about to agree with Wave 100%

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Which is still as similar as helicopters are as far as 121 ops go

Or multiengine

 

[Tripower455]

No trip, I'm saying you could take out all te minorities and women out of all the classes and you'd get hired a week earlier than you would now-

Well, if you're talking the mid 80's to late '90's, you'd be wrong.

To this day I've never had a black pilot in a new hire class. I've never had more than 3 women in a new hire class.

It must be you then.........

If affirmative action is causing you any heartburn, you really don't know the history at places like United (think worse than Anchorman I- basically flipping the bird to regulators on providing any opportunity to minorities and women- and yes- go hit up a Tuskegee airman conference and you'll meet the gentlemen who had to sue to become the first black major airline pilots) and you don't understand the modern numbers-

No argument on any of that. I agree 100% with you.

Every slot in every class is valuable, but you do sound like a dick when over 90% of all new hires are still white males-

The guy, that's spent 20 pages, railing against qualified pilots (possibly) getting a leg up, say I sound like a dick because I believe equal is equal.....

You assume that there aren't old guard pilots who don't believe women and minorities should fly- and that there aren't a LOT of barriers for those people that we don't deal with-

You're assuming that I'm assuming.....

91% is the number that AC uses- that fluctuates at every airline- but in the mean-

What is the % of non white males that applied compared with white males vs the ratio of those actually hired?

If you can't get a job when 91% of new hires are you? The problem isn't anywhere but in the mirror my man-

Yup, I was the wrong color and sex.

It's competitive - which is good

That would be good.

Where I call BS on is that I hear almost no pilots squawk about captains kids, or previous employees or interns who get hooked up with the same qualifications as women and minorities

Why is that?

That's no better, especially when they get hired with far less qualifications than the vast majority of the available pool competing for those jobs.

Why does it offend you to no end if a black guy or woman gets an early opportunity, but it doesn't if a white male gets one through family or internship?

What makes you think the latter doesn't offend me?

Might want to look at that man

Look at what, man?

Historically airlines hire the same or more of those types as they do affirmative action

And that somehow is not OK, but AA is?

You guys are high.....

Equal is equal, even when it's not.