Air Force to UAL New Hire

[AirCobra]

There it is

When all else fails wrap yourself in the flag eh?

So that is what it is then? A hookup to reward military service?
Look, I have a job and a good business an no one will tell me that I am not patriotic bc I was never in the military.

Ual. Aa. Fedex SWA dal

These are private corporations, with publicly traded stocks-
This is a very good conversation to have- why do you feel yip that military pilots are entitled to jobs at these valuable majors over civilians?

Because again- the real problem is THEIR sense of entitlement, not my reaction to it.

Well for starters SWA has a lot of 737's. The Air Force and Navy and have a lot of 737's (T-43's or P-8's). I think a few thousand hours of 737 time would make someone a more attractive applicant than even RJ guy, who you place at the pinnacle of aviation experience, even if the RJ guy had more total time.

Yep the hookup? Here is the secret. All through flight school many Navy guys didn't want fighters or strike so they intentionally planned not to finish in the top 10% of their class, for the sole purpose that eight years down the road they could steal civilian jobs. :laugh:

 

[AirCobra]

So, now you are saying all those guys in the military who are pilot trainers/instructors don't know how to fly, are even less qualified than we first thought and should get a job flying Cessna 210 a couple thousand hours before even applying so they could "learn how to fly all over again"?

I guess we do agree an something.

Since is seems you don't know the difference between a military instructor pilot (which for example is a collateral duty at the squadron level) and a CFI, and somehow equate the two, there is really not much to talk about here. Let me give you an example, ACM is taught with the instructor in another jet.

Come back when you have something intelligent to add.

 

[hammer2]

Yeah but you really have to "work" to get a 1900 job. Most guys take those as a last resort when the "fly and RJ in as little as 250 hours" thing doesn't pan out. I have known many a Great Lakes pilot. There first goal after getting hired is to get out of Great Lakes, not to build flying skill. Remember the programs where you paid to sit right seat in a airliner then got an interview with a regional when you were done? I am sure that is a solid way to build experience. Way better than solo x-country in a say a T-38.

AC, that's not necessarily the truth. A lot of us civies decided to build our time as a freight dog instead of going to a regional. We did this because the pay was significantly greater than regional pay and you would progress to a Lear or Falcon. This was when the magic number was 1000 hrs turbine pic, and less emphasis on 121 experience.

Which begs the question...why are fractional pilots so overlooked? They can outfly and outhink all of you!

 

[AirCobra]

AC, that's not necessarily the truth. A lot of us civies decided to build our time as a freight dog instead of going to a regional. We did this because the pay was significantly greater than regional pay and you would progress to a Lear or Falcon. This was when the magic number was 1000 hrs turbine pic, and less emphasis on 121 experience.

Which begs the question...why are fractional pilots so overlooked? They can outfly and outhink all of you!

Freight dog is not a Beech 1900 job and usually requires more experience than a regional job. For a long time places that flew single pilot Navajo's still required 1200-1500 hours. I have talked to a lot of kids (I would say the majority) that didn't want to instruct or didn't want to fly single pilot in a Baron or Navajo, they would rather get in the right seat of an RJ. That is not a great way to build stick and rudder skills, which is what I think lower time military pilots have over higher time RJ pilots, just by the nature of the type of flying they do. It may seem like a guy that is good at reading a checklist or a whiz with avionics might get by, and they very well might often until the chips are down (Air France, Colgan) and someone needs to actually fly the aircraft. Then 4000 hours of sitting in the right seat is no replacement for someone who spent 1500 hours with their hands and feet on the controls.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/FAA-Report-Pilots-Addicted-to-Automation-233081801.html

 

[Turtle21]

You guys need a new toy.

 

[AirCobra]

You guys need a new toy.

Probably true about 2,000 posts ago but now I just let my freak flag fly. Interesting what you learn about people when they can say stuff anonymously.

 

[Whine Lover]

or.. Because many are the typical "yes" "get the mission done" types that have a hard time learning to fly the contract and uphold the cba. Seen it too many times.

bingo!

 

[Whine Lover]

Haven't gone through all 12 pages, so pardon if this has been posted already.

BUT, I think the essence of this discussion comes down to this:


http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8afa50b440/iceman-the-later-years-from-nino


YKW

 

[Dan Roman]

Then 4000 hours of sitting in the right seat is no replacement for someone who spent 1500 hours with their hands and feet on the controls.

You are correct about hand flying time being important and more and more becoming a lost art. But I have to disagree with your perception of RJ flying. 4000 hrs of rt seat RJ time equats to 2000 hrs of hands on flying in and out of a combination of high density and small, non precision approach type airports in all kinds of weather. That's why the RJ pilots often have have exceptional instrument flying skills. I don't disagree that military pilots get excellent training and a lot of experience in fewer hours. I just disagree that one or the other is "better"
Wave, we have plenty of both mil and civ at Hawaiian and I haven't seen anything of the negative about mil you see at SWA. The ex mil folks are awesome, great to fly with and I can't think of one that I would call "cocky". They bring to the table great experience and a strong desire to learn about civil ops, which is easy for them to do as they have proven they can handle "learning" very well.
I have to wonder if yours and other SWA comments about mil and in particular PHX mil pilots, is a by product of SWA's culture more than a statement of mil pilots in general.

 

[AirCobra]

bingo!

How much military time do you have? I found the worse examples "Of get the mission done" in the civilian world especially with Part 135 and corporate operations. Money is the strongest motivating factor. I never have seen so much second guessing of pilots as I did when you get a DO or CP under pressure to make money.