Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[Flopgut]

I guess I'm on a roll here and I haven't even had a glass of wine yet! I also take umbrage with the perspective that 60 is old. We have plenty of pilots over 60, no one complains about them. I'm at Hawaiian, we are small enough that most everyone knows everyone else. No one here complains about the over 60's. Saying a guy doesn't have a life because he flies past 60 is a joke. You have a problem with a guy in his 60's that likes to fly? We all enjoy either good or a great schedule at Hawaiian. I like my job and I like my days off even more. But saying because I like to fly to Auckland or Sydney and go surfing, fly to PDX and go snowboarding or go to JFK and hear some good music I don't have a life? Pretty fun date to take my wife to SFO for a day! Done right, this is still a great job that creates a nice balance in someones life. Saying you are in a hurry to quit so you can do nothing but surf, golf or whatever may be indicative of needing to get a life too. It's all about balance.

You do understand your situation is not typical, right Dan? Yeah we all get it. Hawaiian is a nice little boutique style airline where everyday is a vacation. Good for you.

But saying a guy who had his pension robbed at 55 is greedy for flying to 65 and being unfair to the guy on furlough (who now also has 5 extra years to work if he wants) sounds pretty self absorbed to me. Everyone was given the opportunity to fly an extra 5 years. Some do, some don't. But the guys who had their pensions stolen in their 50's deserve and need this chance more than anyone. How sad some junior guy would gladly see him tossed out at 60 with no pension just to see his furlough shortened.

*Holy crap!!* You do read what you're writing, right? Furlough means NO income Dan. You know that don't you?! This is where all doubt is removed as to whether or not you're out of touch with reality. On your next surf break between sets you need to do some deep thinking. It's wrong that a pilot loses a pension. It is also wrong to be on furlough. One is NO less a part of this profession than the other!! We should all want to be a part of helping both these pilots. My experience tells me that when I'm an old guy I should be reliable enough that I don't have to cause someone to be furloughed for me to survive. The worst I've seen (in the last 6 years) an old guy have to do is sell his toys. I know about a dozen+ young pilots who've lost their HOUSE! Having endured the retirement age increase that guys like you wanted, it's now time for you to support retirement at 65 with complete enthusiasm. Where is the appreciation Dan?! The age got increased once, and that ought to be more than enough.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Dan,

There is a fine line between pension "recovery" and pure greed. Canada has it correct now, at 65 all Capts move from the left seat to the right seat of a narrowbody, or "cruise officer" on a widebody that never takes off or lands. We'll see how much they do it "for the love of the job" when they get bumped back to the MD88 for 4 legs a day through LGA including walk arounds. If the FAA ever allows that, they may look at that model up North. It would preserve upgrades, but affect new hires, although most might retire after a few months of Dayton and Rapid City layovers.



Bye Bye---General Lee

On the other hand, those LBB layovers will keep you young, General!

Bubba

 

[flyboyike]

In the meantime, calling me (my generation) narcissistic won't cut it. We've seen too much to be impressed.

Doesn't make it not true, though.

 

[flyboyike]

The generation that gave us huge advances in CRM and created a working environment in the cockpit that is way safer and more pleasant to fly...

The majority of guys over age 50 that I have flown with have all the CRM skills of a dead cat.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

"preserve upgrades"
Bye Bye---General Lee

The only upgrade you will ever see is a new Pentium 5 computer to wank to and an upgraded blow up wife.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The majority of guys over age 50 that I have flown with have all the CRM skills of a dead cat.

I bet you are a hoot on an overnight!

 

[Dan Roman]

[QUOTE



*Holy crap!!* You do read what you're writing, right? Furlough means NO income Dan. You know that don't you?! This is where all doubt is removed as to whether or not you're out of touch with reality. .[/QUOTE]

I see it as someone losing everything at 55 with no time to recoup the pension that was robbed from him is in a much different position than someone furloughed. Essentially the furloughed pilot still has time on his side, he can still find another job. Not so much with someone whose pension unexpectedly disappears.

You seem to think some pilot who hadn't planned well enough to "get on with his life" after losing his pension is irresponsible, but a junior pilot that has a mortgage he can't afford if he gets furloughed (junior pilots get furloughed a lot in this business, I had 2) is a victim?

I say it sucks for both and age 65 has helped both given the abrupt switch from DB to DC retirements, but it will benefit the younger pilots more thanks to compound interest.

 

[Dan Roman]

The majority of guys over age 50 that I have flown with have all the CRM skills of a dead cat.

CRM is a two way street. If you are having problems flying with most guys over 50 you may very well be the problem. I've flown with enough pilots from all demographics to know most pilots from any age group are mostly easy to get along with and more often than not a pleasure to fly with. There is always a few that are a royal pain, but they are few and far between.
If you can only get along with guys in your age bracket that probably says more about you than them.

 

[Sacha]

I remember the Immortal Words of a Usair Captain when I asked what was his biggest Revelation when he Upgraded......

"Not all the Azzholes sit in the Left Seat"

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[Flopgut]

[/QUOTE]I see it as someone losing everything at 55 with no time to recoup the pension that was robbed from him is in a much different position than someone furloughed. Essentially the furloughed pilot still has time on his side, he can still find another job. Not so much with someone whose pension unexpectedly disappears.[/QUOTE]

Again, I really could not disagree more. You see it from a furloughed perspective, I saw (witnessed) my Dad restart at age 53. I fail to see why Heaven and earth should be moved for old guys. They can start again just like the furloughed guy. (My old man ended up doing pretty well and we had some fun, looking back on it) Look, a younger guy might or might not have more time, none of us really know when we're done. AND, an old guy can lose out big time at 65 just like many did at 60. Do you believe old guys should always be able to take from younger guys if they get wiped out? After all, the age change did nothing to keep that from happening again.*

*And it could have by the way!! The age increase could have been attached to an effort at pension/retirement reform and it could have truly done some good for all. But again, this group of old guys wanted the overnight windfall...