AGE 65 now LAW!!!

[wingslevl]

He flew F-102's in the TX ANG, so I'd say, yeah, he knows what an airplane looks like.

Stop kidding yourself. No he didn't.

 

[BigMeat]

The only thing bush flew was his pick up down the road jacked up on Jim Beam!

 

[Lear70]

I see your point, but nobody seemed to be too concerned when the cargo guys were left behind in the 90's. I'm happy with our pay rates compared to the legacy guys and I'm not complaining about them. However, my CA upgrade is going to be delayed just as much as anyone at AA, United, CAL or Delta, and I thought that's what this is all about. I didn't think it was about relative pay rates. If 65 is wrong, it's wrong....no?

Oh, no doubt that it's going to hurt... The repercussions of this are going to be felt for a long time.

Guys who just had to retire are going to be clamoring to come back to work and are going to be suing over it shortly. If they are successful, it will be a HUGE hit on upgrade times, the company will cry poor on F/O wage increases because of the additional money paid to those senior CA's at the highest wage the payscale usually has, and some might actually buy off on it, just "happy to be at a major".

However, age discrimination is still age discrimination. I supported age 65 before, and I still do, even though it's going to make me work longer for the same money. It needed to end, and it has, as nasty as that's going to be for the rest of us.

I also don't believe that all of the age 60+ pilots will remain in the workforce. More than likely many will want to retire sometime before age 65, especially at FDX, UPS, and CAL where pensions are still good and in effect because of the CBA and where their wages weren't smacked as hard post 9/11 due to concessionary CBA's in bankruptcy or displaced back to F/O or furloughed.

Still more will not be able to pass their medicals as time wears on due to eyesight, hearing, blood pressure/weight/EKG issues, etc. Not a perfect solution, but it softens the blow somewhat.

Now the real battle begins for the rest of us... fighting to get our wages adjusted for the last 20 years of inflation, plus recouping lost wages from upgrades. Not going to be easy, but it's done.

Hope you're successful at FDX in getting some of that money added back into the F/O side of the equation for the longer upgrade times! :beer:

 

[jetflier]

President signed bill earlier tonight....

THATS IT !!....I'm voting for Billary !!

 

[SOVT]

And I thought it was about safety???

BUCK FUSH!!!!!!!!!

and all you other pieces of feces who supported this. I, along with my plenty of others appreciate getting effed out of a lot of money. :angryfire

 

[Flying Freddie]

Grow up!

BUCK FUSH!!!!!!!!!

and all you other pieces of feces who supported this. I, along with my plenty of others appreciate getting effed out of a lot of money. :angryfire

Nice. I hope the five extra years will help you control your rage while you mature.

I am going to the store to pick up some Depends before my flight.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

******************** You d@uche Bag

 

[stonewall]

Stop kidding yourself. No he didn't.

Stop being such a Potsy. Of course he did. And President Clinton, or President Gore, or Kerry or Obama or Paul or whatever nutjob you send your money to would've signed this thing, too. Grow up.

 

[stonewall]

THATS IT !!....I'm voting for Billary !!

'Cause she would've vetoed it

 

[SkiFishFly]

Not to mention a negotiated benefit is now in the can. Medical benefits for retirees was something worth millions of $$$ a year (at UPS, you receive medical bene's until Medicare). Now we essentially gave that away. Those millions could have given the F/O's more of a raise, or a larger B fund contribution.

Wow - your contract has already been renegotiated?

 

[SkiFishFly]

Stop kidding yourself. No he didn't.

They let you fly airplanes with people in them????

 

[Charlie Brown]

I supported this. I am a 2 year F/O who has been furloughed and will need these extra years to repair lots o damage. I may not make Capt right away and score all the hot F/As but it will be helpful in cushioning the blow of the last 4 years.

Just an aside...I have never seen so many crybaby little girly men in one thread in a long time. Congratulations...

Hey sport, maybe you don't mind working for free for 2-3 years to "make up for lost wages" but I do. I suggest waking up and putting some factual numbers to what just happened to all of us younger than 55ish pilots. There are plenty of people who have explained it better than I can who have already posted. However if you like going through life with your eyes closed I can't help it. Maybe it makes it easier to accept if you are out of touch?

 

[Charlie Brown]

Nice. I hope the five extra years will help you control your rage while you mature.

I am going to the store to pick up some Depends before my flight.

Yeah maybe when I get to be a geezer I will be just as selfish as the rest of you...after all it is all about you right?

I am done with this thread. Lest I be considered a "crybaby". I am so happy to have the chance to work longer for less money. Thanks!

 

[maximizer]

Yeah maybe when I get to be a geezer I will be just as selfish as the rest of you...after all it is all about you right?

I am done with this thread. Lest I be considered a "crybaby". I am so happy to have the chance to work longer for less money. Thanks!

you are a crybaby

 

[jke406]

you are a crybaby

Perhaps the moderators should start a new category called "Selfish Geriatric Pilots," where the old farts can slap each other on the back and congratulate each other for screwing every single pilot to follow them.

And share senility-fighting techniques, and compare adult diaper brands and alzheimer's medications.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Yeah. Can you imagine the airline pilot born on 12 Dec 1947? Arghhh!

Nothing, he just retired, like every other pilot before him did for the last 50 years...

 

[AFcitrus]

It's a dark day for the overwhelming majority of airline pilots in this country. The problem is that we have a lot rich "life experienced" guys who can't stand the thought of playing golf the rest of their days while people below them enjoy the benefits that they themselves have gained over the years. These guys have just paid off whoever they needed to to get this thing done.

My guess is that a few "heavy hitters" were getting too close to retirement for their comfort. They thought they could make this happen without a large payout long before now. So they took out their checkbooks and asked the jag-off politician who sponsored this latest "post veto" effort how much it would take to make it happen. We have one of these guys at AT and there's no doubt in my mind that he has paid $$$$$$ to keep his money train going.

And don't give me this foreign pilots get to fly in US til 65 horsesh%t...Since when is the US influenced by assinine decisions made by other nations in the world. I guess we should have socialized medicine too - like Canada. How about we rollover to terrorists like Spain, France and Germany have done.

Oh by the way, this age 65 thing is BS - it's age discrimination!! We should be able to fly until we keel over on short final. You think I'm joking... Give it a few years, these same greedy old guys will be at it again.

Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of incredible pilots/people I know who are fast approaching age 60. They are wonderful to fly with. It's just a matter of principle -something that most of this country has forgotten all about.

 

[ironspud]

Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of incredible pilots/people I know who are fast approaching age 60. They are wonderful to fly with. It's just a matter of principle -something that most of this country has forgotten all about.

Okaaay. And just what "principle" is it again?

 

[COpilot]

I will treat these guys like the $hit they are. Should be real fun up front.

Write them up; falling asleep in the middle of the day, slurring their words, forgetting what day it is, not remembering what they were instructed to do by ATC (if there is pattern, "we all forget a few") anything that might be related to cognitive reason.

No more of this, "no Capt. this is how you do that in the box", oh Capt I think you ment to do it like this."

Let them fall back on all of that life experence.

 

[Vne]

I'm thinking that this should've happened on January 10 2008. Cause now I will have to fly with the biggest AH with a Captains hat for another 5 years...It's enough to make me retire early!!!

 

[Mooneymite]

An unjust law falls!

Amusing reading the various takes on the age 60 rule. However, the bottom line is that the age 60 rule was unjust from the day it was put into effect. Bad from various aspects. We lived with that law and some of us profitted from that law over the years, getting promotted at the expense of people forced out before their time.

Just because we all "knew the rules", doesn't mitigate the fact that the age 60 rule was capricious and discriminatory.

Slavery was made legal by a bad law. It persisted for years and even the Blacks "knew the rules". Many people profitted from slavery and many people came to accept it as the norm. However, in the final analysis, it was a bad law and it was finally terminated.

Yes, there will be pilots who suffer from this "emancipation" from age discrimination, just like the slave traders who were furious that their livelyhood had been taken away. I don't think anyone with any sense wept buckets of tears for the slave traders who profittd from "bad law"...I don't think anyone should spend too much time crying for those pilots who were hired early and retained because people were being forced out only because of age and now are "on hold".

Next question: when will they get rid of the age 65 rule?

 

[AFcitrus]

If you would have read the post you would know the answer. But I will highlight it for you.

For decades, pilots in this industry have relied on the retirement of older pilots at the age of 60. These retirements allow for the entire seniority list to improve their quality of life and pay. The pilots who are now at the L1 door and are about to "jump on the exit slide of their careers" have benefited enormously from this concept we call retirment. It is now time for them to step aside and allow other to improve their lives. So the matter of principle is -moving on when you expected to move on so that others might improve their lives just like you did when those before you retired. If this had happened 20 years ago, you'd be bitching and moaning too.

I understand that many have lost a great deal in recent pension plan take backs. That concept is BS too!! So why not spend money paying off politicians to get back the money owed to you by the airlines rather than making your fellow pilots foot the bill for it.

Okaaay. And just what "principle" is it again?

 

[PlaneDrvr]

".........Just because we all "knew the rules", doesn't mitigate the fact that the age 60 rule was capricious and discriminatory. quote]

Let me correct you JackA$$, not that long ago the United States Supreme Court ruled that 'age 60' was NOT "Discriminatory." And, been a while since I had civics class, but I do believe there are still the 'highest court' in the Land. Also, if "the age 60 rule was capricious and discriminatory," then why is 'age 65' Not "capricious and discriminatory?" Why is it Not 'capricious and discriminatoy' to require an individual to be 'at least 23 years of age' to hold an Airline Transport Pilot's certificate??? Didn't hear any of these 'poor old farts' yelling about changing that part of the rules??

This was about one thing and one thing only, a bunch of stupid, greedy old guys, changing the rules now because it benefited them.

And, finally your 'reference' to "slavery" proved that You are not just a 'jacka$$' but you are also 'Stupid'

But, Thanks for allowing me to 'correct' you.

DA

 

[Newpilot2b]

You guys kill me. Anyone with a brain five years ago saw this coming. When ICAO made it the standard - the US would at some point follow. Period. So grow up and suck it up. If you haven't planned for it - then it's your fault. This will only slow things down temporarily for the young guys - like myself (29) - yet will make a huge difference for the guys who would have had to bridge the medicare gap. Most pilots forced to retire at age 60 were not making $ 250 K for the last 20 years - as many of you have suggested. In fact the vast majority have had to try and find affordable health insurance without a meaningful retirement package (which is the norm these days). This is a real hardship. Much more of a hardship than a young pilot forced to wait a couple more years for his upgrade. Yet the senior pilots are the ones being called selfish. That's just funny.

This was the right thing to do.

 

[Flopgut]

It's over. The age of our retirement is now 65.

I asked you a question old timer. Is it indeed over?? Is APAAD done??


Folks: I don't like not knowing where this guy is!! Undaunted is not on here either. I'm keeping an eye on CAL ALPA and the news, I suggest you all do the same.

Of course, they may all just be at the Mercedes dealership.

 

[Flopgut]

It's over.

Is there a less correct statement made on here with regard to this issue? Or does this just so perfectly show how one dimensional guys like you are?

The work has just begun.

 

[Flopgut]

The efficiency of getting it through eventually is breathtaking.
Introduced and passed by the House on Tuesday.
Given to the Senate and passed there on Wednesday.
Signed into law on Thursday.
After years of being sent to committees to sit and die, the final version gets passed in three days.
Amazing.

I know. Quite spooky indeed. It's like they didn't even really want to think about what they were actually doing. The blatant disregard for any consequence is amazing.

 

[Four Strings]

Why is it Not 'capricious and discriminatoy' to require an individual to be 'at least 23 years of age' to hold an Airline Transport Pilot's certificate??? Didn't hear any of these 'poor old farts' yelling about changing that part of the rules??

DA

And don't forget ATC mandatory retirement age. ATC is losing tons of experienced controllers. One of the APAAD supporters wrote in an email that it would be detrimental to safety to lose all the experienced pilots and replace them with younger less qualified pilots, yet they were not fighting to make the skies safer from the ATC side of things. It could have been the "Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots and ATC Controllers Act"

My problem with the APAAD was the fact that they were hiding behind age discrimination. If you feel that strongly about age discrimination, then fight against all of it. Not just what benefits you financially. And if it was really just about working longer and making more money, then just say so. No one should feel ashamed to fight for what they truely believe in.

FS

 

[ppriest727]

I just retired in September, am in great health, was a check airman and miss the cockpit. I look forward to coming back as a First Officer flying with many of the Captains that I helped train. This way I won't be taking an upgrade or seniority in any way from anyone.
I applaud the new ruling.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Pure economics. Government likes it when people pay taxes. Taxes, 24/7, birth to death. Captains get to work longer, FO's get to keep working the side gig to make ends meet. Productivity up, GDP up, taxes up. Everything's looking good.

Economics, plain and simple. We have a union to try to improve the career and profession despite economics, unfortunately the good ship ALPA has lost its rudder. I'm not saying we should dump ALPA, but Prater may get to hear something other than applause next time I see him.

Capt. Priest - good for you, but there are many who have no intention of returning to the right seat and who are probably already on the phone to their attorney. Someone else mentioned FedEx, there a return to the left seat with the retirement & insurance would be around $3,000,000.

Hopefully this will put more pressure on ALPA to do something rational with scope. Unless 100 seat jets make it to mainline, there are going to be many retiring First Officers.