AGE 65 now LAW!!!

[Flyby1206]

I am guessing this Age 60 bill is attached to some more important and visible motions (like education for kids and feeding the homeless, etc) hence the unanimous and speedy passage through.

 

[aircowboy]

Boy.... this democracy thing sucks.... let's go back to the way it was....

Democracy is about Majority rules.......not a minority group of self serving greedy pricks.

 

[5ontheglide]

The price of all of our medicals just went way up to cover the cost of liability insurance for doctors signing off 64 year olds to fly a couple hundred people around on min rest and late nights.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Unreal. I believe a pilot who's between the age of 60-65 should be limited to 8 hours of duty per day. That is a regular work day for an individual in the United States. Minimum flight pay should also be no less than 90 hours per month (what most carriers are flying now).

Will pilot groups fight for the above rules or will we bend over and continue to be waterboarded up the rear?

Hell no!! If you want to work past 60 you have to work the same hours as the rest of us. they deserve ZERO special treatment.

Instead I want an increase in FO wages for the damage this is causing to the lower seniority people.

 

[ATRCA]

FO pay will have to go up. Additionally, I will roll over on A funds and other retirement bennies to get it. Contract negotiations will be a bit different from here on out. Young guys will vote for cash and the geezers will try to sweeten the retirement packages.

I will try to secure a retirement from outside the industry and will happily trade the companies plan for up front cash. Others will do the same I'm sure.

Company negotiators will pander to the bottom of the list and I would guess the pay scales will be bottom loaded to get contracts ratified. I'm in!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Democracy is about Majority rules.......not a minority group of self serving greedy pricks.

Sorry... that is not how democracy in our republic works...

A small clique of organized and unorganized pilots basically beat out the apathetic majority.

APAAD formed a small organized group and politiked congress.

ALPA surveyed its members: a minority particapted. A majority of the minority wanted the change.


The rest, the majority, sat on the uncollective asses and posted on message boards inder moniker names and showed.....no one.....anything....

Now, the do-nothing gang is calling for massive changes at ALPA.... funny stuff..

 

[stonewall]

FO pay will have to go up. Additionally, I will roll over on A funds and other retirement bennies to get it. Contract negotiations will be a bit different from here on out. Young guys will vote for cash and the geezers will try to sweeten the retirement packages.

I will try to secure a retirement from outside the industry and will happily trade the companies plan for up front cash. Others will do the same I'm sure.

Company negotiators will pander to the bottom of the list and I would guess the pay scales will be bottom loaded to get contracts ratified. I'm in!!

My bro and I discussed this same thing today. I'm not going to say anything knee-jerk like I usually do, but I'm leaning towards your thinking. We're both in our early 30's at FDX and ready to do what you just said. We'll roll on the A fund to get a better B fund and higher F/O rates. My pension concerns are not as great if I have to fly to 65.

 

[stonewall]

Sorry... that is not how democracy in our republic works...

A small clique of organized and unorganized pilots basically beat out the apathetic majority.

APAAD formed a small organized group and politiked congress.

ALPA surveyed its members: a minority particapted. A majority of the minority wanted the change.


The rest, the majority, sat on the uncollective asses and posted on message boards inder moniker names and showed.....no one.....anything....

Now, the do-nothing gang is calling for massive changes at ALPA.... funny stuff..

Well said.

 

[ATRCA]

Sorry... that is not how democracy in our republic works...

A small clique of organized and unorganized pilots basically beat out the apathetic majority.

APAAD formed a small organized group and politiked congress.

ALPA surveyed its members: a minority particapted. A majority of the minority wanted the change.


The rest, the majority, sat on the uncollective asses and posted on message boards inder moniker names and showed.....no one.....anything....

Now, the do-nothing gang is calling for massive changes at ALPA.... funny stuff..

Funny as it may be, there will be changes forthcoming at ALPA. I have always been "involved" but I will be more involved now and a great deal of that effort will be to reduce my support for ALPA and remove those currently in office. There will be a backlash. It may take time but it will happen. Tom. I will go to work without my ALPA pin and lanyard........for the first time in 8 yrs.

 

[maximizer]

I will go to work without my ALPA pin and lanyard........for the first time in 8 yrs.

....BFD

 

[Flopgut]

ALPA surveyed its members: a minority particapted. A majority of the minority wanted the change.

Hold on, let's not re-write history too quickly. A majority of the minority (of total ALPA members) that voted did NOT want the change. That happened three times.

I'm not going to discount your frustration with members and you're correct appraisal of the apathy. However, I think we can drop the idea of going back to drawing board and starting with a clean slate. I want to see some out of the box thinking and a plan that patterns the exact method APAAD did this. We need to work inside the system, sure. But we have to get outside the system as well.

 

[Luke's Dad]

BUCK FUSH!!!!!!!!!

and all you other pieces of feces who supported this. I, along with my plenty of others appreciate getting effed out of a lot of money. :angryfire

I supported this. I am a 2 year F/O who has been furloughed and will need these extra years to repair lots o damage. I may not make Capt right away and score all the hot F/As but it will be helpful in cushioning the blow of the last 4 years.

Just an aside...I have never seen so many crybaby little girly men in one thread in a long time. Congratulations...

 

[CitationUltra]

Funny as it may be, there will be changes forthcoming at ALPA. I have always been "involved" but I will be more involved now and a great deal of that effort will be to reduce my support for ALPA and remove those currently in office. There will be a backlash. It may take time but it will happen. Tom. I will go to work without my ALPA pin and lanyard........for the first time in 8 yrs.

That'll fix 'em.

 

[CALDC9]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!!

 

[ATRCA]

That'll fix 'em.

Glad you see it my way.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I will go to work without my ALPA pin and lanyard........for the first time in 8 yrs.

Do you renounce your US citizenship and take down your flag everytime the US gov't doesn't do it your way...

Maybe someone will come up to you and say no ALPA pin in 8 years huh? and you can let him have it...

 

[AKAAB]

I believe any law signed goes into effect 30 days from date of signing...

Could be wrong, my memory of civics is a bit weak on the implementation side, I'm sure someone will correct me.

From Wikipedia:

A bill is "enacted" on the same day it is signed by the President. The "effective date," however is written into the text of the bill. Some bill are effective immediately and some Congress picks a later date - could be 2 months or a year or more.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hold on, let's not re-write history too quickly. A majority of the minority (of total ALPA members) that voted did NOT want the change. That happened three times.

I'm not going to discount your frustration with members and you're correct appraisal of the apathy. However, I think we can drop the idea of going back to drawing board and starting with a clean slate. I want to see some out of the box thinking and a plan that patterns the exact method APAAD did this. We need to work inside the system, sure. But we have to get outside the system as well.

Agreed!

 

[J and E's Daddy]

The President signed HR 4343. Evidently he decided that one more day of pilots
getting hosed was one day too many.

It's over. The age of our retirement is now 65.

Does Bush even know what an airplane or n airline pilot is?

 

[Flopgut]

Agreed!

That's cool!

It's not like we don't have plenty of time now.....

 

[Lear70]

My bro and I discussed this same thing today. I'm not going to say anything knee-jerk like I usually do, but I'm leaning towards your thinking. We're both in our early 30's at FDX and ready to do what you just said. We'll roll on the A fund to get a better B fund and higher F/O rates. My pension concerns are not as great if I have to fly to 65.

I'm not trying to be flippant... but that's kinda funny coming from a FDX pilot.

Your career average is about DOUBLE what every passenger Major/Legacy carrier career pay is, not even counting your A-fund.

Methinks the pax F/O's are a little more concerned about it than most FDX pilots. No offense intended,,, just struck me kind of funny that a FDX pilot would chime in about needing to make more on the front end when your 4-6 year F/O's make more than most Major/Legacy CA's these days.

Don't get me wrong, I think we ALL need to come up to AT LEAST FDX salaries, but I'd be perfectly content with FDX salaries plus COLA,,, that's just me of course.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

[Patriot328]

I supported this. I am a 2 year F/O who has been furloughed and will need these extra years to repair lots o damage. I may not make Capt right away and score all the hot F/As but it will be helpful in cushioning the blow of the last 4 years.

The sad thing is you think you're making more money out of the deal.. You're not. You're going to work to 62-63 for the same amount of money you would have to 60 because of the seniority stagnation for the next five years.

 

[PCL_128]

Now, the do-nothing gang is calling for massive changes at ALPA.... funny stuff..

Am I part of the "do nothing gang," Rez? Careful who you paint with that broad brush. Not all of us who opposed ALPA's position on this issue and how it came about are whiny little do-nothings.

 

[Andy Neill]

I am guessing this Age 60 bill is attached to some more important and visible motions (like education for kids and feeding the homeless, etc) hence the unanimous and speedy passage through.

Guess again. HR 4343 (now public law) was a stand alone measure. The ONLY thing in it was the age restriction change.
See this link:
http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:2:./temp/~c110Om1q7P::

 

[stonewall]

I'm not trying to be flippant... but that's kinda funny coming from a FDX pilot.

Your career average is about DOUBLE what every passenger Major/Legacy carrier career pay is, not even counting your A-fund.

Methinks the pax F/O's are a little more concerned about it than most FDX pilots. No offense intended,,, just struck me kind of funny that a FDX pilot would chime in about needing to make more on the front end when your 4-6 year F/O's make more than most Major/Legacy CA's these days.

Don't get me wrong, I think we ALL need to come up to AT LEAST FDX salaries, but I'd be perfectly content with FDX salaries plus COLA,,, that's just me of course.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

I see your point, but nobody seemed to be too concerned when the cargo guys were left behind in the 90's. I'm happy with our pay rates compared to the legacy guys and I'm not complaining about them. However, my CA upgrade is going to be delayed just as much as anyone at AA, United, CAL or Delta, and I thought that's what this is all about. I didn't think it was about relative pay rates. If 65 is wrong, it's wrong....no?

 

[redbook]

Do you renounce your US citizenship and take down your flag everytime the US gov't doesn't do it your way...

Maybe someone will come up to you and say no ALPA pin in 8 years huh? and you can let him have it...

Rez, you are typing too fast. That is a terrible analogy.

Loyalty to your country compared to loyalty to an abject failure of a union? Keep beating that ALPA drum.

 

[PCL_128]

BUCK FUSH!!!!!!!!!

I prefer PUCK FRATER!!!!!!!!

 

[redbook]

I see your point, but nobody seemed to be too concerned when the cargo guys were left behind in the 90's. I'm happy with our pay rates compared to the legacy guys and I'm not complaining about them. However, my CA upgrade is going to be delayed just as much as anyone at AA, United, CAL or Delta, and I thought that's what this is all about. I didn't think it was about relative pay rates. If 65 is wrong, it's wrong....no?

Absolutely. A fedex fo took a big hit with this development. It has nothing to do with relative pay rates.

 

[stonewall]

Does Bush even know what an airplane or n airline pilot is?

He flew F-102's in the TX ANG, so I'd say, yeah, he knows what an airplane looks like.

 

[Fit59]

Not to mention a negotiated benefit is now in the can. Medical benefits for retirees was something worth millions of $$$ a year (at UPS, you receive medical bene's until Medicare). Now we essentially gave that away. Those millions could have given the F/O's more of a raise, or a larger B fund contribution.