Age 65 ICAO Rule – You Might Be Surprised

[Mach 80]

>>>I'm OK with no age limits so long as everyone has to pass a no-s@@T military type flight physical ...<<<

The cost of FAA physicals would become enormous. The few additional medical issues issues that would be discovered would not be cost effective ...a poor cost benefit ratio considering large aircraft have two pilots. The FAA medical was NEVER meant to be an all inclusive medical -- the FAA just primarily wants to know that you can see, hear, and have no glaring other issues and the pilot community would never want to pay for anything more. Can you imaghine $750 physicals? Most physical "downs" are self disclosed anyway when a pilot discovers he has a problem such as the skinny military looking 45 year old runner at my airline who always had heartburn after one of his lenghty runs. He goes to the doctor about it and discovers one of his arteries is 90% clogged and he was mistaking the heart pain he was having as heartburn.

 

[bluesideup340]

There was a also a growing experience shortage amongst new hire pilots in the fall of 2007. That may have been a factor in extending the age.

Now it is you who raises the safety flat just to camouflage your generations economic agenda.
I am not saying the junior folks aren’t guilty of the same.
But at least let us be interlegually honest and admit, it is all about economics for both groups and nothing else.
Which brings me back to a previous post, isn't it time for us to seriously discuss how to restructure compensate for left and right seat pilots fairly?

.

 

[JohnQ]

There was a also a growing experience shortage amongst new hire pilots in the fall of 2007. That may have been a factor in extending the age.

There is taking a stand on an issue, and then there is outright self-imposed delusion. This quote may be the best example of the latter that I have ever seen.

 

[pilotyip]

Reverse Safety

Now it is you who raises the safety flat just to camouflage your generations economic agenda.
I am not saying the junior folks aren’t guilty of the same.
But at least let us be interlegually honest and admit, it is all about economics for both groups and nothing else.
Which brings me back to a previous post, isn't it time for us to seriously discuss how to restructure compensate for left and right seat pilots fairly?

.

The safety flag was raised by congress, due to absolute lack of any experience on new hires at thew lower levels of the airline industry. I was there putting 250 Comm/Inst/MEL into the right seat of the DA-20 and three months later in right seat of DC-9's because they were the most qualified available. AW&ST published a report of a severe pilot shortage for the next 30 years in the summer of 2007. Congress reacted to prevent further experience losses from cockpit. Now for economic reasons the younger pilots are raising the safety flag to get that old guy out of my seat, which is as I see it a purely economic issue. BTW I have no dog in this flight I did not benefit from the new age 65 rule, I was too old.

 

[Duke of Ale]

To Drunk Irishman: I don't really think using VS is dangerous. All that is required is that you pay attention. But since SOP's are designed for the least common denominator, that's why it's there. As far as hand flying, well that's when we all pay attention so no problem.

 

[ualdriver]

The safety flag was raised by congress, due to absolute lack of any experience on new hires at thew lower levels of the airline industry. I was there putting 250 Comm/Inst/MEL into the right seat of the DA-20 and three months later in right seat of DC-9's because they were the most qualified available........

Don't forget to finish that above sentence with, "they were the most qualified available.......at the low salary we offered." There are always "qualified" pilots available, even in 2007, but the industry just didn't want to pay for them.

 

[pilotyip]

Don't think so

at the low salary we offered." There are always "qualified" pilots available, even in 2007, but the industry just didn't want to pay for them.

Don't think so, our starting salary in the DA-20 was $36K per year, and the DC-9 $38K/yr, the highest in our sector of the industry, and almost double the regional starting pay. This high pay was evenually something the company could not maintain in a declining market.

 

[ualdriver]

Don't think so, our starting salary in the DA-20 was $36K per year, and the DC-9 $38K/yr, the highest in our sector of the industry, and almost double the regional starting pay. This high pay was evenually something the company could not maintain in a declining market.

So basically you're saying USA Jet couldn't survive unless it has a cheap supply of pilots subsidizing its bottom line? Wow, I wonder how engineering and actuarial firms survive when starting pay for their professionals are 70% higher than the ones you quote above, on average.

Obviously, your company wasn't paying a high enough salary to attract qualified pilots if all it could attract was 250 hr. pilots for $36-38K/year, regardless if it was double what the regionals were paying. Obviously pilots felt they needed to paid a premium for going to USA Jet vs. the regionals. And if your company could not maintain a salary to attract qualified pilots to stay in business, then unfortunately that's the way it goes.

 

[popgoesbubble]

Our Starting Salary has a Base of $57K on the 7/7 $65K for the 18 day here at Netjets. We got plenty of Experienced pilots as our new Hires all had command experience at the airlines or in the military average total time of new hires was 8000tt. Again UALDriver makes a good Point there are plenty of Qualified pilots out there in 2007 me Being one of them. But the Salary that was offered at UAL, Delta, NWA wasn't good enough to get me to leave. If your pay is so low and USAJet is a Weak argument as they have always been a 1/ 2 year job for most guys than off to a major that paid better and had better work rules.

Do you guys still have that 30 minute call out when on Reserve? Tell me who can get to the airport in 30 minutes from there home. Its works rules like that, That cause you to only attract low time Generation Y pilots looking like the Jonas Brothers and are more concerned with whats happening on American next dance crew or NYC prep than whats going on in there industry.

The flip side to having such good pay and working condition like we have over here at Netjets like Free Medical is that these guys will never leave as there is No enforcement of Age 65 here. Like I said I would be worried at the airlines know that there are 72 year olds flying into the same airport as you guys are.

 

[pilotyip]

Bottom Feeder

So basically you're saying USA Jet couldn't survive unless it has a cheap supply of pilots subsidizing its bottom line? .

We were a bottom feeder, but I think and many wil lecho this the best of the bottom feeders. A place you came and paid your dues so you could move on to a career position. You are trying to confuse us with a career position. Our pilots with to DAL, UAL, NJ, AT, Spirit, FedEx, and a dozen others. I take emense satisfaction in the success I had mentoring a group of new hires and turning them into true aviation professional. Some elected to stay here becasue they were making so much money they could not go back to the starting pay even at major. USA Jet was the finest DA-20 operator in the business. Our training programs were good enough to train anyone who had basic flying skills. USA Jet did all of its training under Part 121 N & O; the DA-20 had 5 weeks of full time ground school prior to starting sim training, which ran one week and 25 hours for F/O's. All DA-20 F/O's received 25 hours of supervised IOE prior to being released to line operations, we observe 100 min time in seat for pairing restrictions and in the past have turned down trips because of only low time pairs available. USA Jet had not hired a Captain off the street since 1998. We have had pilots go to major airlines and tell us, except for fancy bells and whistles, the USA Jet training was as good as they got at their major. DA-20 maintenance was conducted under Part 121, crews were not forced to fly what they considered unsafe airplanes, and a pilot could write up anything and put it in the logbook. We had been inspected many times by both the FAA and outside audit companies, they came away with the same findings: USA Jet was one of the finest operations they had ever seen. We did it right and stood by our standards which went well beyond that required by the FAR’s. While in full time ground school pilots were paid full pay of $35 K per year to start. We have program on track for 6-figure pay in 6 years for all Captains. 10 hard days off every 28-day bid period. We established the policy of hard days off and gave the pilot the option of being flown home or getting additional pay for selling their days. No training contract was required, if you did not want to work for us, we would let you go. We had a very low turnover and the pilot who left went to better jobs. We had the highest guaranteed pay of any on-demand operator flying DA-20 sized equipment. We introduced more days off, increased pay, and hard days off to the on-demand industry. Our completion had to match us in order to attract pilots. We raised the bar. All of this excellent came with a cost and its was cost not being carried by our competition, in the end we were not competitive in the on-demand business. When your primary business is automotive just in line airlift, the last couple years was a bad time to be in business. Flights down 90% since 2000. BTW at union air carrier across the field, a L-188 F/O started at $32K/yr, so we were paying more than the union carriers in our sector.

Our Starting Salary has a Base of $57K on the 7/7 $65K for the 18 day here at Netjets. We got plenty of Experienced pilots as our new Hires all had command experience .

Yes and your point is? That is why so many of our pilots went to NJ, but they had to start someplace.