Age 65 and the "F" word.

[xrated]

Thank goodness it's only the effects of age 65 that we're having to deal with. Can you imagine if this had combined with a recession or something???

Imagine this coming from what appears to be a Southwest Captain. Congrats on your extra 10 years of captain pay.

 

[PunchTheClown]

but you can't blame furloughs on pilots, no matter what their position on the list. Furloughs are furloughs... 65 certainly has an impact of where the furlough starts on the list, but it didn't cause furloughs. Its simple math, but for 65 there would be more guys below me to absorb the negative impacts of the furlough... and I being a good pilot with deep ALPA roots, would love to have more guys lower than me on the ladder. :blush:

How do you explain all the great things scabs have done for the industry then? Your argument is idiotic.

 

[bigtexpilot]

All you say is true and I would much prefer to lay the blame squarely in the lap of the greedy robber barons.

However, had the 65ers moved as had their predecessors before them, there would be no furloughs. Period.

I'm 45 and I stand squarely with a pilots right to not be discriminated against due to their age. It should never have been a rule to begin with. The change in the rule just happened at a bad time. Speaking of greed and sense of entitlement. Your tone says it all.

 

[Hamburger]

I'm 45 and I stand squarely with a pilots right to not be discriminated against due to their age. It should never have been a rule to begin with. The change in the rule just happened at a bad time. Speaking of greed and sense of entitlement. Your tone says it all.

Yawn.
Pilots are still discriminated against due to their age. That hasn't changed. You get to claim no high ground there.

Save the "You're the greedy one for wanting the exact same deal I got." It's just lame.
Greed is wanting MORE than the other guy got, not the EXACT SAME.
Greed is making sure the other guy won't get what you got by taking it from him.
Be sure to call up some furloughed guys and tell them how greedy they are.

Seeing how you're 45, do you also conveniently stand squarely on the Left Seat side of the line?

 

[xanderman]

I'm 45 and I stand squarely with a pilots right to not be discriminated against due to their age. It should never have been a rule to begin with. The change in the rule just happened at a bad time. Speaking of greed and sense of entitlement. Your tone says it all.

Discriminated?!?! Gimme a break man. No one mentioned the word until pensions disappeared and the the age 65 deal started getting traction. EVERYBODY knew the gig was up when 60 came knocking! Now all of a sudden it's discriminatory?

BTW did you know ATC folks are out at 56? Ever wonder why the Govmit doesn't care about that? It's all about the PBGC being burdened by the large number of retired airline pilots they'll have to pay...

 

[Flopgut]

Thank goodness it's only the effects of age 65 that we're having to deal with. Can you imagine if this had combined with a recession or something???

You aren't in the "we" part of the word "we're". You are a "you" guy. This all worked out well for you so you're cool with it.

The fact that furlough numbers so closely match the number staying past 60 (at almost every airline with furloughs) proves that the profession was more resilient than we might have all guessed. There have been more recessions that have not produced furloughs through the years. A healthy commitment to seniority principle and fraternal brotherhood is what made it work then. We see now, absent those past traits at the forefront, the profession suffers.

 

[100 c.i.]

I believe @ AA there are less then 100 pilots under 40 yrs old and over 300 plus over 60. Not to mention the 100 will probably furlough Agian. Unf2cking believable greed in our own ranks....

 

[ttuite]

I'm confused. Are they geezers or gummers? Gummers is a new term to me.

Selfish bastards all.

I see that it is now selfish if you utilize a change in the rules to your benefit. I suppose that you turn down deductions on your income tax because to not pay the maximum taxes every year would be selfish of you. After all, the govement is short on cash right now. How dare you be so selfish! Shame, shame shame on you.
I better stop now my ensure is getting cold. I hate that it takes me 20 minutes to eat a jelly sandwich with having to gum it and all.

 

[flybywire]

I believe @ AA there are less then 100 pilots under 40 yrs old and over 300 plus over 60. Not to mention the 100 will probably furlough Agian. Unf2cking believable greed in our own ranks....

Ok have to ask this one speaking of greed. Are the 300 plus over the age of 60 also allowed to fly and pull their pension money at the same time like they are doing at Us Airways while we have pilots on furlough? Our guys do and they will let you know when you fly with them.

 

[xrated]

I'm 45 and I stand squarely with a pilots right to not be discriminated against due to their age. It should never have been a rule to begin with. The change in the rule just happened at a bad time. Speaking of greed and sense of entitlement. Your tone says it all.

I don't think you get it. Age 60 is discrinination, but age 65 is not???? You seem ok with this. Care to explain?

 

[PsubS]

My point is: 65 is less safe than 60, should not have happened and created a surplus of pilots.

Golly, missed the scientific data on this one. How do you justify your "point?"

Oh, nevermind. This argument is like politics and religion. We'll never change anyone else's mind, will we? Everything here is posted simply to vent and/or bitch.

And you guys are really good at it!

 

[bigtexpilot]

Yawn.
Pilots are still discriminated against due to their age. That hasn't changed. You get to claim no high ground there.

Save the "You're the greedy one for wanting the exact same deal I got." It's just lame.
Greed is wanting MORE than the other guy got, not the EXACT SAME.
Greed is making sure the other guy won't get what you got by taking it from him.
Be sure to call up some furloughed guys and tell them how greedy they are.

Seeing how you're 45, do you also conveniently stand squarely on the Left Seat side of the line?

I don't know what the left side of the line means. I do think that your logic about the greed thing is a bit flawed.

 

[bigtexpilot]

Golly, missed the scientific data on this one. How do you justify your "point?"

Oh, nevermind. This argument is like politics and religion. We'll never change anyone else's mind, will we? Everything here is posted simply to vent and/or bitch.

And you guys are really good at it!

I agree.

 

[Hamburger]

I don't know what the left side of the line means. I do think that your logic about the greed thing is a bit flawed.

Left SEAT side of the line... It means that if you were a Captain when it went down, you won the lottery and your winnings are coming directly from pocket the guy sitting next to you.

How is it flawed?
Please explain how wanting nothing more than the exact same opportunity is Greedy? Where I come from, equality is the opposite of greed.

It is very clear how demanding more than those who went before you had and taking it from those who are coming after you is Greedy.

 

[Flopgut]

Golly, missed the scientific data on this one. How do you justify your "point?"

Oh, nevermind. This argument is like politics and religion. We'll never change anyone else's mind, will we? Everything here is posted simply to vent and/or bitch.

And you guys are really good at it!

There was nothing that said 65 was safer than 60, and it got changed. Everything suggests better duty/rest rules will be more safe, and it is shelved. Why? Because in the case of 65, the old pilots saw gravy. And in the case of duty/flight time, old pilots get nothing. So they don't care.

My point is, and you really need to read the article, Babbitt is signalling that duty time should not cause recalls, hiring or any increase for pilots!? On top of this, he won't rule on the 18 or so pilots who were over 60 at the time the rule changed at CAL who weaseled back to the line. You can have your emotional investment in 65 being right, but at some point you have to acknowledge the BS.

I don't care how/why the recalls happen. As long as they happen. Are you against a change to duty time that increases the number of pilots? Do you think pilots who were clearly outside the exact parameters of the rule change criteria should be allowed to fly? You got any ethics, standards or rules you want to follow at all? It's not just about 65 at this point.

 

[Mr.B]

I'm 45 and I stand squarely with a pilots right to not be discriminated against due to their age. It should never have been a rule to begin with. The change in the rule just happened at a bad time. Speaking of greed and sense of entitlement. Your tone says it all.

I could give a rats arse how old you are or where you stand.

 

[Mr.B]

You aren't in the "we" part of the word "we're". You are a "you" guy. This all worked out well for you so you're cool with it.

The fact that furlough numbers so closely match the number staying past 60 (at almost every airline with furloughs) proves that the profession was more resilient than we might have all guessed. There have been more recessions that have not produced furloughs through the years. A healthy commitment to seniority principle and fraternal brotherhood is what made it work then. We see now, absent those past traits at the forefront, the profession suffers.

Very well said sir.

Fact remains NO 65, no furloughs

 

[Chairman]

Simple math, an article(2007) Kit Darby wrote that UAL would be retiring 430 pilots a yr for the foreseeable future. Parked 100 a/c's. Then 4 yrs of retirements, 430 X 2007,2008,2009,2010=1720 pilots. 1431 have been furloughed, that is a shortage of 289. These numbers indicate UAL would still be hiring. I can see a correlation between 65 and furloughs!

Not saying it was not a factor but parking 94 737's and 6 747's by managment did more to put guys on the street than age 65. It happend deal with it. I guarentee most will enjoy the top end when they get there. They lost pensions, and I will spend this decade furloughed....Guess we have have time to make up. Had age 65 happened 10 years earlier when everyone was hiring 1000 pilots a year it would not have been noticed. It just happend while capacity was being reduced and oil going through the roof. Good thing I have 34 years left to recover!

Chairman

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The problem with the "get out of my seat crowd" is they never learned respect for anyone but themselves. They would kick their own grandmother out of her house just to have a place to live. It was Granny's turn to leave since she had lived too long, so kick her into the street.

That's why bad Karma is striking back.

 

[xrated]

The problem with the "get out of my seat crowd" is they never learned respect for anyone but themselves. They would kick their own grandmother out of her house just to have a place to live. It was Granny's turn to leave since she had lived too long, so kick her into the street.

That's why bad Karma is striking back.

I'm going to assume you mean the "get out of my seat crowd" are the over 60 captains that refuse to relinquish their seats to the F/O's that rightfully deserve that seat just like said captains had years ago???

And I'm going to assume that the "bad Karma" you speak of is the fact that some of those same Captains may medical out before they make 65. Or maybe some of those Captains will pass away at age 65 1/2 and would have missed 5+ years of retirement. Is that what you're saying Undaunted????

And while you may think given the opportunity, the "get out of my seat crowd" would kick Granny out of her house, we all know Granny would be taken care of in a nice nursing home. The reality is Granny has no respect for her young and just decided to throw them in a dumpster and let them fend for themselves. As long as she can afford bingo at the local lodge, who gives a ratts a$$ about them.

As I see it, every airline pilot who is currently flying past age 60 should personally thank every furloughed pilot at his/her airline. Those who selfishly fought for it......I'll just bite my tongue.