Age 60 informal poll

[pilotyip]

I stand by every argument I had against raising the retirement age.

I get the privilege of being shown I was right by flying with a 62 year old. Every day it's the multitude of 'senior moments' and some come at the worst time. I know it's not incompetence because he does things fine at other times. It's slow mental and cognitive shut down... and the worst of it is, how do you tell that to him?

how about the 58 year that does the same thing, how do you tell them?

 

[Freight Dog]

That's my question Yip... how do you tell them?

Do we get the FO's together that have flown with the guy and basically all of us tell him? I really want to know because it is coming to that, and I don't have the benefit of having a Professional Standards Committee.

 

[Freight Dog]

Seriously pilotyip... how do you show respect to man who has given 40+ year to aviation while at the same time tell him that he's becoming a hazard to himself and to his crew? I tried dropping small hints like being a sim instructor and making a good living while still contributing to aviation... but he's not getting it.

 

[XJTAv8r]

One more reason to bring back age 60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKR-Vj5H8u8

 

[pilotyip]

didn't answer the question

Seriously pilotyip... how do you show respect to man who has given 40+ year to aviation while at the same time tell him that he's becoming a hazard to himself and to his crew? I tried dropping small hints like being a sim instructor and making a good living while still contributing to aviation... but he's not getting it.

But what if he was 58, or 55. ASAP?

 

[Freight Dog]

Yip... age doesn't matter. What matters is the decline associated with age, and how do you broach that topic. I'm still waiting for an answer.

No ASAP program in place here.

 

[Flopgut]

FreightDog: Explain it to a check airman. I recently did a special airport checkout with a check airman and age 65 came up. He was indifferent to the most obvious parts of the new rule because it wasn't going to affect him. However, when I explained to him that IMHO because these guys have to fly with someone under 60, it's encumbent upon the rest of us to watch them more closely. Especially a LCA. If one of these old bozos screws up bad and leaves the runway or has an incident (God forbid worse), all they are going to do is retire (with a ton of extra dollars he/she had no claim to) and point a finger at everyone else. The rest of us will have to salvage a career and go on. There was about 45 mins of silence as that began to sink in on the guy.

##edit: My point is these guys have no more discilpline than they did before and many of them were nearly out to pasture anyway. Now they've got an attitude to boot.

 

[waveflyer]

Wow man, you running for office? Get over yourself. The fact is, anybody pointing the finger at someone else is part of the "me" crowd. This "profession" is a sinking boat and ALPA is at the helm. Props to the EAL guys because they put their money where their mouth was and sacrificed for what they believed in. You're not going to see that anymore with today's "I'm just lucky to have a job" crowd. Undaunted is right, soon enough you'll have Widebody Captains flying trans-oceanics for school teacher pay, all while trying to fund their own retirements. Soon enough you'll be part of the crowd saying "It's over already?!? I can't afford retirement!" But that is what thinking six-inches in front of your face will get you.

what are you talking about?

Pilots are done taking concessions.
That's what i'm observing. It should've happened a while ago-- but we were gamers and naive. I'm just glad to see it happening. Hopefully folks will realize that starting over isn't as bad as having the entire industry flying under south america contracts. We've given. Enough is enough. That's all i'm saying.

The rest....
i'm the advocate for thinking long term. And that's includes my personal life... but thanks for the concern.

 

[eaglesview]

Sorry, but you're the worst kind of seniority offender and you typify the entire problem.

I've listened to strikers like you at CAL curse every replacement workers' very existence. Guys like you carried and passed out the list 20+ years after the strike ended. I wanted to empathize with you, until I saw you do the exact same thing to my career!!

Tear up you list or add your name to it. I'm done listening to your BS.

Hey Scooter,

Tell me how I did anything to your career. You going to tell me you know how I feel about 65 Ect. You have no idea. I'd like to see you stand up for anything. Go ahead, walk away from a job like I and 100's of other EAL pilots did.

And i am the one full of BS, Get a life.

 

[ivauir]

1061 birth for me so I guess I am the "ME" generation.

1061 birth? Dude I know you look that old, but .... a senior moment I guess

Now when the YOU generation joins us in the hard times all WE hear is "it's all about you guys what about mine?"

The writing is on the wall - the boomers enjoyed the golden age of this career and now are squeezing five more years of gold at the expense of everyone younger than them. These are facts amigo. Your generation has left aviation and the world at large a mess - don't be surprised that those left to clean it up feel some resentment.

Give me a break

One break - coming up.

 

[Mamma]

Unfortunately the junior pilots can not see more than a 6-months into the future. That is you.

Actually, I can see 15+ years or more into the future for a captain upgrade due to the age 65 rule. I wish it was 6-months.

 

[Flopgut]

Hey Scooter,

Tell me how I did anything to your career. You going to tell me you know how I feel about 65 Ect. You have no idea. I'd like to see you stand up for anything. Go ahead, walk away from a job like I and 100's of other EAL pilots did.

And i am the one full of BS, Get a life.

K. When you lost your job and someone else took it....that was bad. You do no less than the same to someone else? That's OK? Got it. Yes, you are full of BS.

Tear up your list. Apologize to everyone who's had to listen to your "poor wittle me" crap. Or add your name to it. The sum total of good you think you brought to this career was zero'd out with 65.

 

[eaglesview]

K. When you lost your job and someone else took it....that was bad. You do no less than the same to someone else? That's OK? Got it. Yes, you are full of BS.

Tear up your list. Apologize to everyone who's had to listen to your "poor wittle me" crap. Or add your name to it. The sum total of good you think you brought to this career was zero'd out with 65.

Again scooter you have no idea how I vote or feel about any issue. Explain to me why I at 46 am for 65. News flash...my career has now stagnated as well only I don't spend all day moaning about it.

 

[Flopgut]

Forget the exact issue and how it effects either of us personally. You supported a minority issue that short circuited seniority outside the CBA. And I'm worried about what you and other weak members are going to drean up next! Furthermore, I'm finished listening to any striker tell me how crucial and noble their actions were. They are the ones staying at CAL and the ones who wanted this the most. (almost without exception). I'm going to let the scabs off the hook and my list is going in the trash. Because while you may not be one, I don't see much of a difference.

 

[eaglesview]

Forget the exact issue and how it effects either of us personally. You supported a minority issue that short circuited seniority outside the CBA. And I'm worried about what you and other weak members are going to drean up next! Furthermore, I'm finished listening to any striker tell me how crucial and noble their actions were. They are the ones staying at CAL and the ones who wanted this the most. (almost without exception). I'm going to let the scabs off the hook and my list is going in the trash. Because while you may not be one, I don't see much of a difference.

Which issue is that?

 

[Fubijaakr]

News flash...my career has now stagnated as well only I don't spend all day moaning about it.

Amen, EV. All our careers have. And for all the whiners out there, Age 60 ain't coming back. So all the moaning about guys staying on is pissing in the wind.

Time to get over it. This profession has other fish to fry.

 

[Flopgut]

Which issue is that?

Retirement age change.

 

[Flopgut]

Amen, EV. All our careers have. And for all the whiners out there, Age 60 ain't coming back. So all the moaning about guys staying on is pissing in the wind.

Time to get over it. This profession has other fish to fry.

I'll make a deal with you: I promise to gripe about this no more than 10% of what guys like eaglesview griped about what happened to them at EAL, CAL, TI, and UAL. Deal? Because those guys haven't stopped griping about being screwed then and it's been 25 years.

 

[Flopgut]

Time to get over it. This profession has other fish to fry.

Coming from you, that statement worries me.

I mean, I know you actually believe that...you think you've made some sage observation. The concept that we've squandered so much politcal capital in getting the retirement age change that now it's harder to go after the other fish is completely lost on you.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I see your point, but I disagree with the premise. We didn't squander ANY political capital. The change was prompted by the ICAO change. It was a done deal no matter what ALPA's input would have been.

And, that's precisely why they flip flopped on the issue. By dropping their opposition, they were able to get inside the legislation and make the changes that were needed to protect pilots (i.e. no change to medical standard, etc.).

Point is its the law. We'll never go back, so complaining about doesn't help.