Age 60 informal poll

[Falcon Jet 1]

Right on! I keep telling these dumb sob's here at SWA it aint gonna last forever. All I know is it will be pretty miserable for any guy over 60 that i have to fly with if this pos passes. SAVE your call till the 13 Nov.

 

[Cyclone]

ditto

if this passes and you are over 60...let's just say the trips won't be treats. happy halloween old timers. you are going to be the persona non grata of the industry.

 

[I Hate Freight]

Age 60 is history. It's a done deal. It's going up, probably to 65 so get used to it.

If you plan on giving some captain a hard time or not doing your job like you're supposed to because he's over sixty, and you're causing a hostile or unsafe work environment then you should also prepare to be kicked off of trips and explaining your actions to your CP.

 

[Cyclone]

over 60

If he's over 60 I expect hazardous duty pay compensation if i'm the F.O. Otherwise, I expect the senior citizen to be in the right seat; if the rule mandates an assisted living F.O. who is under 60 to help the oldtimer, then the 60+ guy really ought not be the captain. Age is an issue.

If neither of the above happen, expect things to be not-so-rosy for any airline pilots over 60. They will not be popular. Trust me. They may get their way as far as the law is concerned...but they better not falter on the line.

 

[FoxHunter]

if this passes and you are over 60...let's just say the trips won't be treats. happy halloween old timers. you are going to be the persona non grata of the industry.

Son, if you were flying with me it would be a treat even if I knew you had fought the change. I flew with enough AHs before there was such a thing as CRM to make sure that there is a relaxed professional cockpit. If you want to have a beer and dinner, fine, if not that is also fine.

Now if an overt attitude problem that is causing problems you will be removed from the trip. The Chief Pilot and the VP of OPS can decide your future.

 

[Cyclone]

Condescending

Yes sir. I am sorry sir. Please forgive me sir. You know what foxhunter....that is my attitude...and the first time you doze off or miss a crossing restriction I will be the one to go to the chief...to tell him that I think you need medical evaluation and that you may be suffering from senility or some other condition that I think is preventing you from doing your job. Yes sir. Aye Aye skipper.

Stay awake. Don't mess up. You'll be just fine old timer.

 

[FoxHunter]

Yes sir. I am sorry sir. Please forgive me sir. You know what foxhunter....that is my attitude...and the first time you doze off or miss a crossing restriction I will be the one to go to the chief...to tell him that I think you need medical evaluation and that you may be suffering from senility or some other condition that I think is preventing you from doing your job. Yes sir. Aye Aye skipper.

Stay awake. Don't mess up. You'll be just fine old timer.

What can I say son? Good Luck?:beer:

 

[Sluggo_63]

Hmm!! Guys forced back into a position they really don't want to be. You couple that with the fact that many of those pilots have a very large sick bank that will be lost once they do retire. :beer: Most sick leave by over age 60 S/Os is probably due to eye problems, they can't see going too work.

First of all, no one was forced to the engineer panel when they turned 60.

Secondly, do you mean to tell me that these pilots were calling in sick en masse when they really weren't sick? Why? Because they wanted to other things than fly? But the reason they want to stay is to fly, but then why the sick call. Maybe they were just being dishonest and lying to the company to pad their retirement. I'm sure that testimony would look good in front of Congress.

 

[Cyclone]

Age Caveat

Foxhunter. For once, answer the question:

If age isn't an issue why the caveat under 60 with over 60?

If age is an issue then come up and propose something better than simply changing a number. The new rule won't make the skies safer. That is my beef. It may make the skies less safe. I have a problem with that. This isn't about greenbacks for me. For you it is. You have said so in previous posts. That is evil motive.

 

[FoxHunter]

First of all, no one was forced to the engineer panel when they turned 60.

Secondly, do you mean to tell me that these pilots were calling in sick en masse when they really weren't sick? Why? Because they wanted to other things than fly? But the reason they want to stay is to fly, but then why the sick call. Maybe they were just being dishonest and lying to the company to pad their retirement. I'm sure that testimony would look good in front of Congress.

They have a choice, be a S/O, or retire. Some were over 50 when hired ex military, ex EAL etc. Just pointing out the facts of life. Sick leave abuse is a big problem in the airline industry, it always has been. I've known guys that say they use all the sick bank every year, and therse are guys under age 40. I've heard numerous pilots say that they intend to retire with zero hours of sick pay. If they had a full bank to start with that works out to about 9-10 months pay.

 

[FoxHunter]

Foxhunter. For once, answer the question:

If age isn't an issue why the caveat under 60 with over 60?

If age is an issue then come up and propose something better than simply changing a number. The new rule won't make the skies safer. That is my beef. It may make the skies less safe. I have a problem with that. This isn't about greenbacks for me. For you it is. You have said so in previous posts. That is evil motive.

Changing the rule will not make the skies less safe. I've spent 8+ years on furlough, plus many more very junior so I understand where the opposition to the change is coming from. The two things that make it a perfect storm for change is the failed pensions plus the ICAO change. The age 65 limit is still bogus, the one pilot under age 60 is also bogus, but that is what has been proposed and I expect that is what we will have. The idea that this change will push all the junior people back five years is also bogus. Some will only go a few months past age 60, some a few year, and some to age 65 or older if that number is eliminated. I do believe at some future date the world will go the way of Canada, Australia, and New Zealand with no upper limit.

I would hope that everyone would have the luck in this industry that I have had. I can also say that there were many times that I thought I was having no luck at all, but in hind sight I know I was wrong. I enjoy my job, enjoy going to work. If I thought I was slipping I would quit tomorrow.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Son, if you were flying with me it would be a treat even if I knew you had fought the change. I flew with enough AHs before there was such a thing as CRM to make sure that there is a relaxed professional cockpit. If you want to have a beer and dinner, fine, if not that is also fine.

Now if an overt attitude problem that is causing problems you will be removed from the trip. The Chief Pilot and the VP of OPS can decide your future.

Foxhunter,

Sounds pretty arrogant coming from you. It looks like you think it’s a slam dunk -- like you’re counting on getting Age 65 plus the left seat plus all the amenities. I wouldn’t be spending your unearned windfall quite yet. This fight is far from over.

If age 65 passes, all pilots over age 60 go to the end of the seniority list of the pilots hired under ago 60. You can call HR all you want but you do it from the right seat.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

The idea that this change will push all the junior people back five years is also bogus. Some will only go a few months past age 60, some a few year, and some to age 65 or older if that number is eliminated.

Foxhunter,

Where is your data to support your claim. Truth is you have none. You have no idea of where this industry is going in a few years let alone one week. Except for probably the freighter guys, we are all only one terriorist hit away from a industry wide bankruptcy.

When the age changes, you can count on the majority of pilots going to the full retirement age. Look at past history.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Changing the rule will not make the skies less safe.

If I thought I was slipping I would quit tomorrow.

Foxhunter,

Again, where is your data claiming the skies will not be less safe? Even ICAO admits as much when they're only allowing one pilot over the age of 60 in the cockpit. So not only will you be stealing our jobs, but then we will have to baby-sit you on top of it. Now that's bogus.

If you thought you we're slipping you would quit tomorrow -- yeah right. You really think you can make an honest assessment of your own flying skills? The sports world is littered with players making an honest assessment of their own skills and playing way past their prime. Truth is if a pilot can continue to make money, most will continue to fly regardless of what they think their true flying skills are -- it's human nature. I see it all the time with guys showing up to work sick because they don’t want to lose the time.

Over the years I have flown with the old two stripers who flew well into their 60's and 70's. Now some were sharp, but there were others that were completely out to lunch with most of them sleeping the majority of time between DFW and HNL. It would be interesting to see some good data, but you can take it to bank that a huge majority of them were calling in sick one or twice a month.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Cyclone]

Foxhunter. Answer the questions.

If you think age 60 is bogus OK. You said you also think the ICAO proposal is bogus.
Do you support the ICAO proposal?
How do you explain that the ICAO proposal forces an under 60 guy to fly with an over 60 guy? Do you think this is because age is an issue?
Do you think age is an issue?
If not, then you are OK with 80+ year olds flying airliners?
If yes then how would you screen?

Some of us here really do care about safety and we would be interested to hear from you on how we could keep our skies safe and have a better rule.

Changing the number from a to b isn't changing the rule it is just changing the number. This will make the skies less safe because older people who lose skills as they age will be allowed to fly. You will be less safe in five years than you are now...just like you will be needing more cialis for your chalice. It's going to happen.