Age 60 informal poll

[General Lee]

The B plan at UAL is just like a 401k. When you think you have enough money then you can retire. There is no IRS penalty for withdrawing money after a person is 59.5 years old as it is with all 401k type plans. If the pilot retirement age goes to 65 then pilots may or may not work until that age. As I said, when you have enough money you can retire. Personally I think there are many pilots who will not go to 65. They may retire at 62 they say.

Of course a defined contribution plan such as a 401k is the future of all retirement plans in America. It is also called work until you can no longer work because you never know if you have enough cash socked away unless you know how long you will live. This country will not permit defined benefit (pension) plans to continue. Personally, I think there will be big problems for legacy corporations like GM where an employee can start working at 18 and work for 30 years, retiring at 48 years old on 80% of their salary and receive that for 32 years if they live be be 80. So how can any company possibly continure to compete when 50% of their payrole goes to retired unproductive ex-employees? They can not.

Look out if you're on a pension of any type.

So as far as an airline pilot is concerned, how can a typical pilot possibly save enough money to last them a lifetime by age 60 when the wages are so low that there is nothing left to put away for retirement. Just work the numbers, pilots need to work to age 65 to even have a chance of retiring.

Well, you should have married a rich girl. Like my Mamma always told me, it is just as easy to fall in love with a rich girl as it is with a poor one. You chose WRONG.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[b757driver]

Well, you should have married a rich girl. Like my Mamma always told me, it is just as easy to fall in love with a rich girl as it is with a poor one. You chose WRONG.


Bye Bye--General Lee

That's a pretty dumb statement coming from the likes of you! And you know it.
Could have, should have, would have......
The whoile thing (pilot career) is a total crap-shoot. I've said it before and I'll say i again, in this industry, there are NO guarantees!!! That's FACT. How on earth can you even bein to plan for a reasonable future when that future keeps changing and usually for the worst every few years.
Answer that, my financial whizz?? Because my guru is having problems doing it as financial models are based on a steady, increasing income over time - the exact opposite of what has been happening to a lot of pilots out there. And before you mention it, most pilots do have savings and have been careful with their money. But sometimes there are factors outside of your control, no matter what you do.
Have you ever been laid off or furloughed for a while ie. more than 3 years in your career? If not, try it. I'm told it's "character-building"...........B.S.

 

[vetrider]

Who knows, after the advisory committee finalizes its work, the FAA may decide to fall in line with ICAO regardless of what Congress does or does not do. It would not surprise me.

 

[ToThePain]

Dear Mr.XXXX:

Thank you for contacting me regarding age restrictions of pilots. I appreciate
hearing from you and having the benefit of your views.

Over 40 years ago, as the face of world transportation was rapidly changing, the
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) instituted a mandatory retirement age of
60 for all commercial pilots. However, the FAA instituted this rule without the
benefit of medical or scientific studies or public comment. This policy was
brought into question after a 1993 study and data compiled by the FAA in 1999
found no correlation between age and accident rate as pilots approach 60.

Because of this lack of evidence to support the forced retirement of capable
pilots, I am proud to cosponsor S. 65 which would prohibit the FAA from denying
any person an airman or medical certificate for the operation of a commercial
aircraft solely based on an individual's age. S. 65 would also prohibit the FAA
from imposing restrictions or limitations on an airman or medical certificate
following an initial or periodic competency test because of an individual's age.
This is a responsible policy that ensures that our nation's skies are navigated
by qualified pilots, regardless of age.

S. 65 has been referred to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and
Transportation. As I am not a member of this committee, I will not have an
opportunity to vote on this bill in its current form. However, be assured that
I will urge my colleagues to pass this important piece of legislation that
abolishes a form of age discrimination against our nation's pilots.

Thank you again for contacting me. If I can be of further assistance in this or
any other matter, please do not hesitate to call on me.
Sincerely,

Rick Santorum
United States Senate

The response I got from my elected officials.

 

[Andy]

However, the FAA instituted this rule without the
benefit of medical or scientific studies or public comment. This policy was
brought into question after a 1993 study and data compiled by the FAA in 1999 found no correlation between age and accident rate as pilots approach 60.

Sen Santorum's staff failed to do their homework. The FAA formed a committee that reviewed scientific studies. There was an opportunity for public comment prior to the rule being implemented - the FAA only got somewhere around 100 comments.
Of course what do you expect from the GOP?

 

[Flopgut]

The B plan at UAL is just like a 401k. When you think you have enough money then you can retire. There is no IRS penalty for withdrawing money after a person is 59.5 years old as it is with all 401k type plans. If the pilot retirement age goes to 65 then pilots may or may not work until that age. As I said, when you have enough money you can retire. Personally I think there are many pilots who will not go to 65. They may retire at 62 they say.

Of course a defined contribution plan such as a 401k is the future of all retirement plans in America. It is also called work until you can no longer work because you never know if you have enough cash socked away unless you know how long you will live. This country will not permit defined benefit (pension) plans to continue. Personally, I think there will be big problems for legacy corporations like GM where an employee can start working at 18 and work for 30 years, retiring at 48 years old on 80% of their salary and receive that for 32 years if they live be be 80. So how can any company possibly continure to compete when 50% of their payrole goes to retired unproductive ex-employees? They can not.

Look out if you're on a pension of any type.

So as far as an airline pilot is concerned, how can a typical pilot possibly save enough money to last them a lifetime by age 60 when the wages are so low that there is nothing left to put away for retirement. Just work the numbers, pilots need to work to age 65 to even have a chance of retiring.

B plans were negotiated into existence based on the fact airline pilots quit working somewhat early at age 60. That is where they came from, and although that's about all anyone has left, look for legacy carriers [UAL] to cite the age change and seek to diminish the plans. Sound scary? You bet! Don't put anything past them.

I'm listening to you and B757driver ask the question: "how are we supposed to make this work?" Well, I think the answer is clear, we need to make about 400K/yr doing this job! If we're all supposed to get our pensions routinely horked and our CBAs rolled back to zero every 5 years then we're nothing more than itinerant workers! We need to be paid huge so we can sustain ourselves through tough times.

We do not need to work longer. We need a national contract for all of us, to serve as a baseline. A five year deal that cannot be abbrogated. And a bond-like financial device that puts lost monies back into the pockets of pilots like yourself who've been screwed. (and I do not mean a little, we could nearly get you all of it, it's not that hard) It's do-able. If the age change contingent had put half the effort into that, instead of trying to work longer, this sort of thing might be a reality.

Shoot, if we put half the effort that went into this thread, into that, we'd be close! (maybe) This is ridiculous! We're all fighting with each other and meanwhile UAL has 4 billion, AA has 7, CAL has 3.5. This is more money than they've ever had and here we are: squabbling.

 

[Klako]

The age 60 restriction in FAR Part 121.383(c) would treat me unfairly after I reach the age of 60. I am an experienced professional airline pilot but I have no other viable skills. The age 60 restriction in FAR Part 121.383(c) would deprive me my liberty and deny me equal protection of the law guaranteed to me under the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution. The age 60 restriction in FAR Part 121.383(c) abridges my privileges by denying me my liberty and ability to earn a living in my chosen profession. This violation of my civil liberty would likely cause me to suffer undo harm and severe financial hardship. At the very least, I need to pilot aircraft in FAR Part 121 operations to the age of 65 when I am eligible for Medicare and the Social Security.
I have been found to be qualified, proficient and medically fit by the FAA to perform pilot duties under in FAR Part 121. This is evidence by my Airline Transport Certificate and my current FAA Class One Medical Certificate. There is every reason to believe that I will continue to be found proficient and fit to perform the pilot duties required by FAR Part 121 after my 60th birthday. There is no credible information available that supports the notion that all FAR Part 121 pilots over age 60 pose more of a safety risk than younger pilots.

Most of the world is moving to a retirement age of 65 for airline pilots. Japan and the Netherlands, to name but two, have done extensive studies which showed raising an airline pilot’s age is not a risk. Countries such as Japan, Australia, those of the Joint Aviation Authority in Europe...all have raised their pilots’ retirement age. Some 45 nations now allow their airline pilots to fly past the age of 60. Some of these pilots do so in United States airspace. The International Civil Aviation Organization, ICAO, Secretariat has now recommended a new upper age limit, with restriction to multi-crew, of 65 years. This recommendation is based on extensive studies, global experience (data compiled from 63 States) with older pilots, totaling 25,500 pilot-years, and the expressed wish of 93 States. The International Civil Aviation Organization—ICAO, now recognizes the harm done by the age 60 rule standard and will amend the international standard to age 65, which should become applicable on 23 November 2006.

A person’s age has never been proven to be the sole determination of one’s ability to safely perform the duties of a FAR Part 121 pilot. There is no evidence that proves that physical and mental decline can be measured by age alone. We have all observed that some people decline in their physical and mental abilities faster than others. There is the experience factor to be considered also. Since the Wright Brothers, the aviation industry has observed that the more experienced pilot is likely to be the safer pilot. Pilots may suffer some varying amounts of decline in physical and cognitive abilities as they age, however, their level of experience could compensate for any physical decline in performance.

If the United States Federal Government is to continue the age restriction in FAR Part 121-383, given that a pilot is otherwise qualified to practice in their profession, then that government must prove that there are enough reasons to deny pilots the full enjoyment of their profession. If pilots are denied piloting an aircraft for no reason other than because of age, then it is the Federal Government’s burden to first prove that all pilots suffer an unacceptable decline in my ability to fly beyond age 60 which poses an unacceptable safety risk to the flying public. The proof that age alone determines when a FAR Part 121 pilot must not operate aircraft in FAR Part 121 operations is something that Congress has directed the FAA to come up with but the FAA has failed to produce such proof. That proof simply dose not exist.

The age 60 restriction in FAR Part 121.383(c) should be extended or abolished until/unless it is proven that all Far Part 121 pilots suffer an unacceptable decline in ability to fly beyond age 60 which poses an unacceptable safety risk to the flying public,

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Klako: This is the greatest post ever on age 60. Very well said.

 

[§kyye Candy]

The bottom line

This is ridiculous! We're all fighting with each other and meanwhile UAL has 4 billion, AA has 7, CAL has 3.5. This is more money than they've ever had and here we are: squabbling.

Well stated, Flopgut. BRAVO!

And Klako... change your answering machine! You're wasting space.

 

[§kyye Candy]

P.s.

I have been found to be qualified, proficient and medically fit by the FAA...

Klako, if you were comparable to a younger mentality, then all of us younger chicks would be dating guys like YOU instead of guys like my YOUNGER , more "qualified, fit & proficient" man!

Actually, I take that back... I only date men who are financially responsible and have a viable plan for the future that they are capable of implementing.