Age 60 informal poll

[Flopgut]

Now Klako, then, he must be the best of the best. He has it all, LCC skills and years of experience. And yet you all treat him any any other pilot that disagrees with you with a lack of respect. All he wants to do, like me, is to continue in his profession as any person should have a right to do. And like you will all want to do too, that is if you really love this profession.

The lack of respect here lies with you and Klako. You act like no one has ever skippered a widebody before you. Klako asserts his job is like a piece of property, as though he has a deed to it. There are pilots who came before you, and there are pilots who will come after you. Be happy you got to take a turn at it, and be proud to pass it on.

Another thing that is really starting to bother me is that for you to fly past 60, your other crewmembers have to be under age 60. You have only mild regard for this situation and I think that shows a lack of respect. You didn't have to bear this unique burden, why should your co-workers? Respect goes both ways, your last several posts display a huge lack of respect on your part. You're even mouthing off about accidents! Easy does it...You're better than that, cool it.

 

[Freight Dog]

Wow, I'm speechless.... UndauntedFlyer actually admitted he makes mistakes. Not only that, but he ALSO admitted that the FO's probably catch more of his mistakes than he does of theirs.

Now, let's see here... experience levels, yes!

From regional FO's to regional captain to mainline narrowbody FO to widebody FO to narrowbody captain to widebody captain.

Undaunted, you leave, and you see the trail you leave behind? And you allude that your FO's aren't ready to replace you... see what I mean by spitting in the face of every UAL pilot junior to you?

 

[jbDC9]

Now, does anyone really believe that by having our most experienced pilots retire while in what I believe to be the peak of their career, replaced by a new hire starting at the bottom of the pile, that that will make the world safer for the traveling public? I certainly think not and it is the majority of the ARC comments that agree with my view.

Undaunted, you're an idiot. Do you have any idea at all on how a pilot career and a seniority list works? So, did you hire on as a 777 captain?? You were never a new hire, right? You must've been hired straight to the almighty left seat with umpteen thousand hours and an impossibly large ego to boot.

Get a clue, moron; every pilot has to start at the ground floor, do their time and work their way up the list, building experience, just like you did. Did you forget where you came from or are you too wrapped up in your Captain's ego to care?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Undaunted, you're an idiot. Do you have any idea at all on how a pilot career and a seniority list works? So, did you hire on as a 777 captain?? You were never a new hire, right? You must've been hired straight to the almighty left seat with umpteen thousand hours and an impossibly large ego to boot.

Get a clue, moron; every pilot has to start at the ground floor, do their time and work their way up the list, building experience, just like you did. Did you forget where you came from or are you too wrapped up in your Captain's ego to care?

Your post makes no sense. Clearly I said that my replacement comes to the bottom of the pile, meaning the new-hire f/o at some commuter/regional airlline.

 

[vetrider]

Your post makes no sense. Clearly I said that my replacement comes to the bottom of the pile, meaning the new-hire f/o at some commuter/regional airlline.

No, your replacement comes from your own seniority list, someone who it would not be going out on a limb to say has plenty of experience. The new hire replaces someone much farther down the list, someone else altogether.

 

[The Prussian]

I do agree that the Regional Airlines and the LCC Captains must have some of the very best stick and rudder skills of any airline pilot.

.....and chicks dig skills!!!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

But alas, your profile shows only 17,500 hr... and that's after 37 years? That isn't much, sounds like you're a green, inexperienced low timer to me... but what do I know, I'm only 37 with 15,000 hrs. Just a young, inexperienced junior punk, right?

I have taken the time to add up my log book. My new TT has been changed in my profile.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Does UAL allow over 60 instructors?

Undauntedflyer, does UAL allow over 60 year old instructors in its training department? And if so have you already been promised continued employment in the training department?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Undauntedflyer, does UAL allow over 60 year old instructors in its training department? And if so have you already been promised continued employment in the training department?

No they do not have any over age 60 flight instructors in the training department. ALPA has put a stop to any chance of allowing the over age 60 guys back in any capacity. This has been the policy for years.

 

[Flopgut]

I think the trng depts should be run exclusively by retired pilots. I don't think any airline needs sim instructors making 350K who could be out on the line raising the mortgage. In fact I think ALPA should buy sims, formulate a trng dept, and provide trng like FSI for airlines. Perfect ALPA trng to the point that individual airline trng is no longer economically viable. Airlines will drop their own trng depts, and someday that will be useful for pilot labor...in the mean time we'll get better trng. There's a retirement project for you right there Undaunted!

Now back to grumping at you: You like to mention accidents as they compare to experience. I got one for you: It's not an accident, but it's no less a debacle that should be investigated the same way. Remember when PW announced "I've saved the A fund!"? Didn't pan out too well, did it? The overwhelming, urgent demands of the senior imperative sold out better than half the list, and they still took your money. Most of the UAL pilots I know are junior and not one of them didn't see that coming. What happened? How did that chain of errors not get broken? (Maybe your FOs should be required to be under 35? Cause they had that one figured out!) Are we about to make the same error with a retirement age change? Maybe. Wouldn't matter to you I'm afraid, you're locked in on it! You're not listening to anybody!

Stop hitting up your co-workers with your overwhelming, urgent needs. Tell the ARC about it. Tell them UAL has more cash on hand than they ever have and before GT buys another airline he owes you a retirement check! Make THAT your cause instead of age 65.

 

[jbDC9]

Your post makes no sense. Clearly I said that my replacement comes to the bottom of the pile, meaning the new-hire f/o at some commuter/regional airlline.

Okay then, if that strokes your ego, go with it. Your earlier post shows your attitude; that the senior experienced pilots (i.e., YOU) are like gods, irreplaceable by some snot nosed "low time" new guys. You prefer to just gloss over the fact that you were once an inexperienced new hire yourself... so, using your ridiculous "logic", the air travel industry was less safe when you plopped your newly hired ass into the F/E or F/O seat. But now that you're a senior captain, that just doesn't matter; pilots with less experience appear to be beneath you, and I don't mean on the seniority list either. Nice attitude.

Quit yer bitchin' about safety or discrimination. It's all about money and ego for you.

 

[Phaedrus]

Quit yer bitchin' about safety or discrimination. It's all about money and ego for you.

Bob, tell him what he's won!

 

[pipe]

UF is fond of including deep and moving quotes from the likes of Abraham Lincoln and others in his posts - here are a few for him to consider:

"Everybody needs his memories. They keep the wolf of insignificance from the door."
— Saul Bellow
(1915-2005) U.S. (Canadian born) writer - wrote novels, short stories and plays; won Nobel Prize for Literature (1976); won Pulitzer Prize for Humboldt's Gift (1975)

Kahlil Gibran (1883-1931) Lebanese poet
"I have learnt silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers."

Tommy Lasorda (1927-) U.S. baseball manager
"About the only problem with success is that it does not teach you how to deal with failure."

Dave Allen (1936-2005) Irish comedian
"I still think of myself as I was 25 years ago. Then I look in a mirror and see an old bastard and realize it's me."

Jimmy Connors (1952-) U.S. tennis player
"Experience is a great advantage. The problem is that when you get the experience, you're too danged old to do anything about it."

John McEnroe (1959-) U.S. tennis player and sportscaster
"I am not having points taken off me by an incompetent old fool. You are the pits of the world."

Abigail Van Buren (191, (Pauline Esther Friedman; Mrs. Morton Phillips) U.S. advice columnist
"Wisdom doesn't automatically come with old age. Nothing does - except wrinkles. It's true, some wines improve with age. But only if the grapes were good in the first place."

Neil Armstrong (1930-) U.S. astronaut
(About Charles Lindbergh) "He did it alone. We had a cast of millions." (editors note: Could Neil Armstrong have been talking about UF?)


Hannibal Lecter detective/crime film character
"I do wish we could chat longer, but I'm having an old friend for dinner."

Enjoy-

PIPE

 

[skiandsurf]

No they do not have any over age 60 flight instructors in the training department. ALPA has put a stop to any chance of allowing the over age 60 guys back in any capacity. This has been the policy for years.

I know that UAL used to have "over age 60" guys working the panel. Wasnt aware of ALPA being against that. If you really want to work and provide for your family, maybe this should be your real fight. I dont think there is a FAA regulation about teaching over age 60. Now you might have a legitimate age discrimination law suit on your hands.

Do any other airlines allow over age 60s to instruct? I know at my last job, we had at least one, maybe two.

Any US airlines that still have engineers, and do they have over age 60 guys working still? How about FedEx or UPS, any over 60 FEs?

 

[FoxHunter]

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/11/28/Navigation/177/210768/Pilots+could+fly+on+until+they+reach


Pilots could fly on until they reach 70
By David Learmount

JAA medical committee sees nothing against fit crew

The European Joint Aviation Authorities medical committee has agreed that there is "no medical reason" why airline pilots should not be permitted to continue flying until they reach 70 years of age.
The finding has been revealed as an International Civil Aviation Organisation resolution permitting pilots to fly to age 65 was implemented last week.
Speaking at Flight International's Crew Management Conference in Brussels last week, aviation medical consultant Dr Ian Perry said that the JAA medical committee has agreed that a fit 70-year-old should not be prevented from commanding a commercial air transport aircraft on medical grounds.
At the conference, the chairman of the Singapore Civil Aviation Medical Board, Dr Jarnail Singh, who also chaired the ultra-long-range task force and is a member of the Flight Safety Foundation crew alertness committee, said that in examinations of factors affecting crew fitness to work on ultra-long-range flights - such as Singapore-New York non-stop - pilot age was determined not to be an issue.
Perry, meanwhile, said that while airlines find clinical diagnosis of chronic fatigue "difficult to accept", if an accident is fatigue-related the airline is responsible for it. While making it clear that such events were rare, he revealed that the reduced freedom of movement imposed on long-haul pilots by the need to lock cockpit doors has resulted in flightcrew sleeping on the floor behind the pilot seats.
The US Federal Aviation Administration has set up a forum to investigate if US commercial pilots should be allowed to fly past the age of 60, in line with the new ICAO rules.
ICAO has increased the upper age limit for pilots to 65, provided that one of the pilots in the cockpit is under 60. Medical experts and FAA personnel will be joined by representatives from airlines and pilot unions in the Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee to examine whether the USA should follow suit.

 

[Flopgut]

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/11/28/Navigation/177/210768/Pilots+could+fly+on+until+they+reach


Pilots could fly on until they reach 70
By David Learmountquote]

Here we go guys....They already want more than 65! Told you they would!

We change it once, and it will never end.

 

[Freight Dog]

I'd like to know which airline and 70 year old crew they observed making ultra long range flights on a regular basis.

Here is a legitimate question I'd like answered by the pro-change crowd.

If your crew was to tell you that you're falling behind the power curve, and that you're becoming a burden on them as opposed to an asset, would you believe them or would you dismiss them as just someone trying to kick you out of the left seat?

 

[Sporto]

negatory on this story!

 

[Andy]

Your post makes no sense. Clearly I said that my replacement comes to the bottom of the pile, meaning the new-hire f/o at some commuter/regional airlline.

UF, you are truly an idiot savant. A furloughee will replace your pompous azz in the cockpit. I have a 22 Jan recall class; just 7 days before you're put out to pasture. I will go on mil leave, but I know that all of the pilots on the UAL seniority list below me are well qualified.
Here's how it's going to go with your replacement. A 767 Captain will bid up to 777 Capt and replace you. Three cheers! A 737/320 Captain will bid up to 767 Cap. A 777/400 FO will bid up to 737/320Capt. A 767 FO will bid up to 777/400 FO. A 737/320Fo will bid up to 767 FO. A furloughee will be recalled to fill the 737/320 FO vacancy. And your azz will be, thankfully, retired. 29 Jan. Let's count the days. Less than 65.

I'm amazed that you or any other idiot thinks that the rule is going to change any time soon.

You have besmirched yourself so much on this and other boards that I would be surprised if many attend your retirement cake cutting. Hopefully they'll forget to call the fire dept. You have proven that you don't deserve such an honor. You, sir, are a small c.

 

[walden]

That's a gauntlet right across the chops.