Age 60 informal poll

[Phaedrus]

Yep, I'll adapt. That's the game. However, I'll also be at peace because I know I've been honest with myself. I give you credit for not hoisting the moral superiority flag about discrimination and boiling it down to what it really is: a way to keep making the green at expense of those below you.

 

[71KILO]

Phaed,
You get on with FedEx?

 

[Phaedrus]

71K: Yep! Life is good. What's up on your front?

 

[Klako]

Yep, I'll adapt. That's the game. However, I'll also be at peace because I know I've been honest with myself. I give you credit for not hoisting the moral superiority flag about discrimination and boiling it down to what it really is: a way to keep making the green at expense of those below you.

I fly for one of the best regional airlines but I make less as a 17 year captain than most FOs who fly for the majors. I do not have a pension with my company. I do have a very modest 401K but not enough to survive on. When I am forced to retire in three months, I will not have a retiree medical plan through my company. The only way that I can survive is working for at least another 2 years. It has been the concentrated efforts of ALPA and APA that have thwarted any chance of allowing me to keep my job for another two years. It galls me every time I read where some selfish ALPA pilot claims that extending the retirement age would allow me to "keep making the green at expense of those below" me. Junior ALPA and APA pilots are forcing me into poverty just so they can enjoy the high life a little bit sooner. It is disgusting that a labor union would dictate the age that all pilots in the airline industry must retire.

When did younger pilots became more valuable than experienced pilots?
Why would ALPA, a labor union, actively support a rule that discriminates against its own members, forces them to leave their workplaces and leave them with reduced benefits?

I am tempted to make the next jumpseater wearing an ALPA pin to remove that offensive ALPA pin before he/she rides in my jump seat.

 

[pipe]

ALPA President Henry Duffy’s made this statement in the 1990 Baker v FAA “It has never been my belief that professional expertise diminishes at age 60, on the contrary, our senior members possess a wealth of knowledge, aviation history, and insight that have been developed through their years of experience, which are irreplaceable”. He also stated during this testimony “Pilots over 55 comprise 5-6% of the total membership. The other 95% selfishly view the forced retirement of older pilots as their guaranteed path and a God given right to their promotions!”


Is "ANDY" a member of that 95%?

Sounds like they'd be great candidates to write a book, instruct in a sim, teach a class, etc. It is true that the longer you've been around, the more you've seen.

What is glaringly absent above is any actual data regarding diminished cognitive ability, accident rates, etc.

BTW, how old was Hank when he made his touchy-feely and completely devoid of hard-fact statement?

PIPE

PS- Here we go with that pesky majority thing again. Why does that keep rearing its ugly head everywhere there are elections?

 

[miles otoole]

I fly for one of the best regional airlines but I make less as a 17 year captain than most FOs who fly for the majors. I do not have a pension with my company. I do have a very modest 401K but not enough to survive on. When I am forced to retire in three months, I will not have a retiree medical plan through my company. The only way that I can survive is working for at least another 2 years. It has been the concentrated efforts of ALPA and APA that have thwarted any chance of allowing me to keep my job for another two years. It galls me every time I read where some selfish ALPA pilot claims that extending the retirement age would allow me to "keep making the green at expense of those below" me. Junior ALPA and APA pilots are forcing me into poverty just so they can enjoy the high life a little bit sooner. It is disgusting that a labor union would dictate the age that all pilots in the airline industry must retire.

When did younger pilots became more valuable than experienced pilots?
Why would ALPA, a labor union, actively support a rule that discriminates against its own members, forces them to leave their workplaces and leave them with reduced benefits?

I am tempted to make the next jumpseater wearing an ALPA pin to remove that offensive ALPA pin before he/she rides in my jump seat.

You won't get a response from them because your situation doesn't fit their "sitting at the 777 trough for the past 10 years" argument.

 

[vetrider]

Politics does make for strange bedfellows. It would be my guess that the only thought the undaunted flyers of the world gave to the klakos of the world would have been something along the lines of "loser at some non sked who couldn't get on at a real airline." Now undaunted flyer gives klako the high five for the best post he has ever seen on the subject. Interesting indeed.

 

[Andy]

If you're going to cite "safety" as a reason to force otherwise healthy pilots into early retirement, then you're going to have to address the sharp rise in accidents experienced by those pilots over 40 as well as those over 60. Personally, if I'm going to have to start another career, I'd rather do it at 40 than at 60.

Whistlin' Dan, the accident rate takes an upward turn at 55, not 40.

 

[Andy]

You won't get a response from them because your situation doesn't fit their "sitting at the 777 trough for the past 10 years" argument.

Wrong, Miles. Klako is not telling you the entire story.
Klako retired from the military as a CW4; he has been getting a monthly pension for the last 17+ years. That also entitles him to very inexpensive medical care. Klako will also claim that he chose to fly at his current employer (Horizon) because it was close to home and that he expected to be able to fly until 65.

Now, let’s dissect this a bit. I’d be willing to bet that Klako does not have a bachelor’s degree (his choice), which almost completely rules out a job at a major airline.
Klako will also claim that he can’t afford medical care because his 15+ year doctor won’t accept Tricare. Again, his choice to continue to go to that doctor rather than change to another doctor.
Klako hasn’t mentioned that the rule which made Horizon go from 135 to 121 ops in 1999 had been around since 1995. Klako knew that he’d have to retire at 60 back in 1995.

As far as Klako’s current pay, a 17 year Horizon captain on the CRJ-700 is making $117/hr. If he’s not holding CRJ-700 captain, that’s his choice.
He also has a 10% match for his 401k. If he has chosen to not put away 10%, that’s his choice.

Klako’s had a lot of time to make different choices, but he has chosen not to. I was furloughed in 2002 and had to make major course corrections in my career. Klako has chosen to not make course corrections and is now expending his time and energy in a fruitless effort to change the age 60 rule before he turns into a pumpkin.
There have been efforts to have the FAA make regulatory changes to the age 60 rule, but the FAA has not done so due to safety concerns. There have been efforts to have judicial system change the age 60, but all judges have ruled against them.
The latest effort to change the age 60 rule is through the legislative process. The politics is indeed interesting to watch. While many politicians will pay lip service and state publicly that they are in favor of change, no one is bringing the bill forward for a vote on the Senate side and it's bottled up in subcommittee on the House side. And it won’t come up for a vote because Congress has more significant issues that they are concentrating on. For us pilots this seems monumental, but for politicians, it’s not even on the radar screen. Even Jim Gibbons’ radar screen.

 

[Phaedrus]

You won't get a response from them because your situation doesn't fit their "sitting at the 777 trough for the past 10 years" argument.

You beat me to it Andy. I was only going to say that my non-response was due to:

I am tempted to make the next jumpseater wearing an ALPA pin to remove that offensive ALPA pin before he/she rides in my jump seat.

I know, he was merely tempted.