Age 60 informal poll

[jbDC9]

Klako: This is the greatest post ever on age 60. Very well said.

What, is that the first time you've seen that? He's posted pretty much that exact same message maybe a dozen times now. We get it. Yawn...

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Drunks, Diabetics, Deaf, and Obese take notice

The previous posts state medical standards will not change. But even if they are right, which I find unlikely, the current standards are enough to disqualify all those currently passing with waivers.

Thousands of CLASS I medicals are being issued with waivers. If the age limit increases say goodbye to the FAA medical waiver system. The elimination of the waiver system alone will exceed the retirement forcast numbers of age 60.


Go ahead and fight to cut your own careers short. Since when has politics ever produced anything other than a bad compromise.


Do you meet all these standards today? For those on waivers watch out.
​

FAA Medical Standards, Protocols and Forms​

Synopsis of Medical Standards, AME Guide - Revised April 3, 2006​

Certificate Class
DPilot TDISTANT VISION 20/20 or better in each eye separately, with or without correction. 20/40 or better in each eye separately, with or without correction. NEAR VISION 20/40 or better in each eye separately (Snellen equivalent), with or without correction, as measured at 16 inches. INTERMEDIATEVISION 20/40 or better in each eye separately (Snellen equivalent), with or without correction at age 50 and over, as measured at 32 inches. No requirement. COLOR VISION Ability to perceive those colors necessary for safe performance of airmen duties.

HEARING Demonstrate hearing of an average conversational voice in a quiet room, using both ears at 6 feet, with the back turned to the examiner OR pass one of the audiometric tests below or: PULSE Not disqualifying per se. Used to determine cardiac system status and responsiveness. BLOOD PRESSURE No specified values stated in the standards. Current guideline maximum is 155/95.
​

Audiometric speech discrimination test: (Score at least 70% discrimination in one ear) or:​

Pure tone audiometric test: Unaided, with thresholds no worse than:
500Hz 1,000Hz 2,000Hz 3,000Hz
Better Ear 35Db 30Db 30Db 40Db
Worst Ear 35Db 50Db 50Db 60Db​

EAR, NOSE, THROAT No ear disease or condition manifested by, or that may reasonably be expected to be manifested by, vertigo or a disturbance of speech or equilibrium.ELECTRO-CARDIOGRAM At age 35 & annually after age 40. Not routinely required.

MENTAL No diagnosis of psychosis, or bipolar disorder, or severe personality disorders.

SUBSTANCE DEPENDENCE & SUBSTANCE ABUSE A diagnosis or medical history of substance dependence is disqualifying unless there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years. A history of substance abuse within the preceding 2 years is disqualifying. Substance includes alcohol and other drugs (i.e., PCP, sedatives and hynoptics, anxiolytics, marijuana, cocaine, opioids, amphetamines, hallucinogens, and other psychoactive drugs or chemicals). DISQUALIFYING

CONDITIONS
Unless otherwise directed by the FAA, the Examiner must deny or defer if the applicant has a history of: (1) Diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medication; (2) Angina pectoris; (3) Coronary heart disease that has been treated or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic or clinically significant; (4) Myocardial infarction; (5) Cardiac valve replacement; (6) Permanent cardiac pacemaker; (7) Heart replacement; (8) Psychosis; (9) Bipolar disorder; (10) Personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts; (11) Substance dependence; (12) Substance abuse; (13) Epilepsy; (14) Disturbance of consciousness and without satisfactory explanation of cause, and (15) Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory explanation of cause.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

30,000 total waivers issued

Look at the statistics of just 1st class medicals issued on waivers at:​

http://www.leftseat.com/sistats.htm

​

30,000 total waivers alone show a flawed system that needs reform. And if that reform comes after an age extension, expect tighter standards as Senator (R-OK) has said he wants.

Then I want to read everyones arguments how medical standards are not about safety.

Quit while your ahead and come to your senses before you let the politicians destroy your careers.
​

​

FAA Medical Certification | Statistics

During a typical year the FAA processes over 400,000 pathological records and considers almost 30,000 Special Issuance waivers. Over 80% of the denied pilots did not provide sufficient documentation.

Below you will find a partial list of conditions being certified by the FAA. The number of airman with each condition are broken down by certificate class.

Referencing the red text above, even if you do provide proper documentation 20% of 30,000 is stil 6.000 pilots who are not currently getting waivers issued prior to any medical standard reform. And a large percentage of the total stats are FIRST CLASS MEDICALS.



​

 

[Klako]

Interestingly, the FAA grants exemptions for pilots who have had head injuries, seizures, alcohol and drug dependency, heart attacks and bypass surgery. All of these can be and are forgiven after cognitive testing but NEVER has there been an exemption for the simple fact of being one day older than 59, that magic age of 60 that somehow means a seasoned pilot no is longer fit to perform in a lifelong skill. The FAA's official position is that, in spite of numerous scientific studies, it has insufficient evidence to prove that an airline pilot would be as safe or safer if allowed to fly beyond age 60 and therefore all airline pilots must be grounded on their 60th birthday. What a pitiful distortion of logic that the FAA uses to deprive otherwise qualified persons their right to perform in their lifelong career.

 

[Apache06]

Age 60 change

yes to changing the rule to 65

 

[sandman2122]

no to changing the rule to 65.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Head Injuries waivers will be another variable eliminated with the increased risk

Interestingly, the FAA grants exemptions for pilots who have had head injuries, seizures, alcohol and drug dependency, heart attacks ........NEVER has there been an exemption for the simple fact of being one day older than 59.........What a pitiful distortion of logic that the FAA uses to deprive otherwise qualified persons their right to perform in their lifelong career.

Klako, your right. Waivers for head injuries are not logical to allow. I am sure those waivers along with all the other types will be eliminated with the increased risks of over 60 year old pilots being allowed to fly.

Medical standards, the issuance of waivers, and the entire system will change with an age 60 change.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The vote is in: It's age 65 for ALPA at US Airways

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE
October 6, 2006​

This is Arnie Gentile with a US Airways MEC update for Friday, October 6th, with one new item.
The US Airways pilots’ survey on the Age 60 poll was completed today. The results to the polling question, "Do you favor changing the Age 60 Rule?" are as follows:
With 64 percent of the eligible 2,352 pilots participating in the vote:
756 pilots or 50.03 percent voted yes.
755 pilots or 49.97 percent voted no. A one vote difference!
Fellow Pilots, if you do not think that your participation makes a difference, here’s proof.
Please remember we still have 1,594 pilots on furlough with 178 pilots working at Jets for Jobs carriers. We will update these numbers.
Fly safe and thank you for listening.

 

[fr8doggie]

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE​

October 6, 2006​

​

Please remember we still have 1,594 pilots on furlough

I wonder how those 1,594 furloughed pilots would vote?

 

[Deadbug]

US Airways too? not so fast...

Yeah, the so-called vote was a 1-vote margin:

With 64 percent of the eligible voting:
756 pilots voted yes.
755 pilots voted no. A one vote difference

No mandate there...

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

"A house divided against itself can not stand"

The world's pilot group can not stand half of one mind and half of another. They must become all of one mine or all of the other. The only position that will satisfy all over time is the one world standard. That age is set at age 65.

 

[jetjockey#1]

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Pilots have spoken, and the majority of us, ALPA survey, etc.. don't want it.

Give it a rest. NAY TO CHANGE THE AGE 60 RULE.

 

[pilotyip]

ALPA does represent all the pilots who have stake in the age 65 rules. If ALPA wants an age 60 or age 55, or whatever, put it in your contract.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

"A house divided against itself can not stand"

The world's pilot group can not stand half of one mind and half of another. They must become all of one mine or all of the other. The only position that will satisfy all over time is the one world standard. That age is set at age 65.

The age has been set for over 40 years here in the US. You are right a house divided against itself can not stand. Age 60 is the rule.

Also remember Undaunted -- there is nothing in our contracts that say anything about seniority rights over the age of 60. Don't think you own that seat.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Klako]

U.S. SENATE

COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENE, AND TRANSPORTATION

SUBCOMMITTEE ON AVIATION

Federal Aviation Administration’s Age 60 Rule

Statement for the Committee Hearing Record

Submitted by Airline Division, International Brotherhood of Teamsters

25 Louisiana Avenue NW, Washington, D.C. 20001, 202-624-8741

July 19, 2005





“The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, Airline Division, represents 40,000 aviation employees, including over 7,000 air transport pilots (“ATPs”). Our organization supports changing the Age 60 Rule, and urges Congress to pass S. 65 and H.R. 65, legislation introduced by Senator James Inhofe and by Congressman James Gibbons respectively.” *





* Excerpt only - First paragraph of the testimony.

For a complete copy of the testimony contact the Airline Division at (202) 624-8741

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

If this is a safety issue as ALPA and APA say, why is there a vote on this issue. A vote on a safety issue is not the way to decide a safety issue.

Do you vote on whether to takeoff when there is a thunderstorm sitting on the departure end of the runway? Do you pole the passengers and crew as to whether to take off with the weather radar inoperative? Or how about a pole for flying all the rest of the way to your destination if an engine fails on takeoff?

Age 60 is not a safety issue that is for sure. It's pure age discriminaton, and now is's discrimination against Americans.

And now the ecominics of the issue has caught up as U.S. Air ALPA has voted to get rid of the age 60 rule.

 

[Klako]

There is growing support within the pilot unions to change the “Age 60 Rule". The following unions and pilot employee groups have gone on record that they support a change the Age 60 Rule:

US AIRWAYS
IBT Teamsters Airline Division
SOUTHWEST AIRLINES PILOTS ASSOCIATION (Independent)
JET BLUE (Independent)
AMERICAN TRANS AIR/ATA (ALPA Master Executive Council)
AMERICA WEST MEC (ALPA Master Executive Council)
SPIRIT (ALPA Master Executive Council)
CONTINENTAL (ALPA Local Executive Councils of Houston and Newark)


The only two organized labor unions that remain officially oppose a change to the “Age 60 Rule”, are ALPA and APA. Even though ALPA's official position is that they are still against it, there are growing sentiments within the rank and file of ALPA for changing the "Age 60 Rule”.

 

[zonker]

I wrote all my senators and congressmen today and urged them to vote against S.65/HR. 65.

 

[sandman2122]

"Growing sentiment" I don't think so. More like: " in ONE person's opinion - klacko - ". That's all it is, one guy's opinion.

You guys can kiss the seniority system good by IF this policy changes......... hopefully not in my lifetime.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

That is one hot sister you got on that picture mister. Nice job.