Age 60 informal poll

[GoABX]

APA reaffirms support for age 60 rule

Judy Tarver
7/18/2006​

​

The Allied Pilots Association (APA), representing the 13,000 pilots of American Airlines, reaffirmed its support for maintaining a mandatory retirement at age 60 for the nation's commercial pilots.

Congress is considering legislation that would raise the age, and pilots on both sides of the issue are making their respective cases in person this week on Capitol Hill.

"Since the Federal Aviation Administration's establishment of age 60 pilot retirement in 1959, not one single airline accident has been attributed to the effects of aging--either sudden or subtle--on a pilot's health and skills," said Capt. Ralph Hunter, APA president. "It's hard to imagine why Congress would even consider experimenting with such a successful policy, particularly given the implications for public safety."
Hunter noted that age discrimination and economic considerations are the justifications most often cited by those supporting an increase in the retirement age.
While APA and the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA)--the latter representing some 61,000 pilots at 39 airlines in the U.S. and Canada--support maintaining retirement age at 60, the Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association (SWAPA) has been pressing for change. Hunter said that Southwest has hired some 1,000 pilots since last surveying its pilots on the issue, so SWAPA's position could shift if its members were to be surveyed again. However, Southwest Airlines, unlike American, does not have a defined benefit pension plan so pilots there may be more concerned about long-term income security. Not only does Southwest's pilot union supported a change in the age 60 rule, but the carrier itself has previously supported changing the rule.

SOURCE:
http://www.fltops.com/fltopstoday.asp

 

[b757driver]

To Be Or Not To Be

It ain't just SWA that supports raising the age but an increasing number of international airlines, some of whom will be flying into the US.....

Here's another:

Thu Jul 13, 2006
JA raises age limit for pilots to 65

Jamaica has joined several other states in meeting the International Civil Aviation Organization recommendation that the age limit for the holders of Airline Transport pilots licenses be extended from 60 to 65. Transport Minister Robert Pickersgill says Jamaica decided to join the line as pilots have been maintaining an excellent state of health.

He notes that the new local civil aviation regulations already contain the age limit provisions for aircraft of a certain weight category.

Chairman of the Caribbean Airline Pilots Association, George DeCabral, believes that most countries will be following suit shortly.

However he notes that this is not a directive.

They were speaking at the 13th annual Airline Pilots Association Conference which is underway at the Wyndham hotel in Montego Bay, St. James.
http://www.rjr94fm.com/news/story.php?category=2&story=26266
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]__________________________________________________________________[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Pilots group welcomes new retirement age [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]published: Friday | July 14, 2006[/FONT]

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WESTERN BUREAU:
THE CARIBBEAN Airline Pilots' Association (CALPA) has welcomed the United Kingdom-based International Civil Aviation Authority's (ICAA) recent approval of a new retirement age for airline pilots.
Captain George de Cabral, chairman of the association, says the extension of the retirement age from 60 to 65 years, which takes effect on November 23 this year, has been widely supported by pilots and their respective countries across the region. However, while the retirement age has been adjusted, it remains an option for countries to implement.
COUNTRIES CAN REGULATE
"Although they have implemented this new age limit, individual countries can still regulate their own age limit. They (the ICAA) can't necessarily force a country to go to 65 years," Captain de Cabral said. "ICAA members across the Caribbean have signed on to this (so) I do not foresee a problem with it when the time comes." Captain de Cabral was speaking at the association's 13th Annual General Meeting at the Rose Hall Resort and Country Club in Montego Bay, St. James yesterday.
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060714/news/news5.html
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[T206driver]

This rule is boldface age discrimination. Yea to dumping this horrid regulation.

 

[Klako]

There is no credible information available that supports the notion that airline pilots over age 60 pose more of a safety risk than younger pilots. There are, however, numerous credible reports supporting a ban on the FAA’s arbitrary age 60 mandatory retirement law. Safety is the smokescreen that ALPA and APA uses to institutionalized age discrimination through their accelerated job advancement scheme for its junior pilots.

In July 1979 Captain J. J. O’Donnell, then president of ALPA, testifies before the House Public Works and Transportation Committee: Congressman Anderson: “I gather from your testimony before the Select Committee on Aging that some of your members do not want to see the Age 60 Rule ended. Do those who oppose ending the age 60 rule do so on the grounds of safety or economics?” Captain O’Donnell; “ I would be misleading [to say that] they do it on the basis of safety. ... t is economics to those who object to the change in the regulation.”


ALPA President Henry Duffy’s made this statement in the 1990 Baker v FAA “It has never been my belief that professional expertise diminishes at age 60: on the contrary, our senior members possess a wealth of knowledge, aviation history, and insight that have been developed through their years of experience, which are irreplaceable”. He also stated during this testimony “Pilots over 55 comprise 5-6% of the total membership. The other 95% selfishly view the forced retirement of older pilots as their guaranteed path and a God given right to their promotions!”


It is a disgusting situation when a labor union such as ALPA and APA could dictate to the rest of the United States airline industry when all airline pilots must retire.

Senior pilots have had their right to work flagrantly violated. What legitimate labor union would actively support such a rule that discriminates against its own members and forces them to leave their workplaces. When the State deprives a person of their liberty to work in a profession that they are qualified, this violates that person’s equal protection guarantied by our Constitution. Ageism and age discrimination simply must not be institutionalized by a federal law such as we now have in the FAA’ s current “Age 60 Rule”.

There is growing support within the pilot unions to change the “Age 60 Rule". The following unions and pilot employee groups have gone on record that they support a change the Age 60 Rule:

SOUTHWEST AIRLINES PILOTS ASSOCIATION (Independent)
JET BLUE (Independent)
AMERICAN TRANS AIR/ATA (ALPA Master Executive Council)
AMERICA WEST MEC (ALPA Master Executive Council)
SPIRIT (ALPA Master Executive Council)
CONTINENTAL (ALPA Local Executive Councils of Houston and Newark)
US AIRWAYS (ALPA Local Executive Council of Philadelphia)
IBT TEAMSTERS (Airline Division)
There are only two organized labor unions that now oppose a change to the “Age 60 Rule”, ALPA and APA. Even though ALPA's official position is that they are still against it, there are growing sentiments within the rank and file of ALPA for changing the "Age 60 Rule”. ALPA and APA have been milking the “Age 60 Rule” for all it’s worth for much too long a time and it is high time that the Congress puts ALPA and APA back on the right track.

All Airline pilots need a rule that poses the least harm to all across the board. There are just too many pilots now who at one time worked for Braniff, Pan Am, Eastern Frontier, or other carriers gone bankrupt,merged or otherwise forced to seek employment elsewhere, starting on probation wages.... again. Many pilots have four or five different uniforms in their closet, gaining seniority only in age, and need to work beyond age 60 to enjoy a decent retirement. Only the largest majors have the big pensions, and therefore are against any change, however, with the demise of the younger hiring age, many of their newer pilots are realizing the possibility of inadequate pensions at age 60. Most, if not all, smaller or newer carriers do not have a fixed benefit retirement. For those pilots, retiring at age 60 could be their worst nightmare. Realization of this fact may come for the non-forward thinking as they get nearer to the guillotine of the “Age 60 Rule”.

All Airline pilots need to have a rule that best assures their future not one that merely placates their situation early in their careers. It is high time for the United States to follow the lead of forward thinking nations around the world who have broken through the age 60 barrier. The “Age 60 Rule” should be repealed. A repeal is long overdue, and this time - more than ever before - the FAA knows it, most pilots know it, passengers know it, and our senators and congressmen - whose offices acknowledge that the majority of the calls and letters and faxes they receive favor repeal (despite ALPA's best and costliest efforts) - know it.

Shame on those pilots who continue in “lock step” with ALPA and APA as they have been dealing bad faith to their own senior union members? Now is the time for the Congress to stand on the side of reasonableness and fairness and force a change to the “Age 60 Rule”.

Today Americans are become increasingly aware that unless one is independently wealthy, the only viable retirement plan one can count on is 401K savings and planning to work past age 60. No one should count on Social Security or a defined benefit plan, as those are becoming less reliable to retirees. The rising tide of retiring baby boomers could likely cause runaway inflation when there are fewer and fewer producers and more consuming without producing. The only clear solution is to encourage people to work longer. People today live longer and are healthier that 40 years ago. Forced early retirement is just plain wrong. Airline pilots, like other workers “should be judged on ability, skill, and proficiency, not on arbitrary age limits”.

 

[JohnDoe]

There is no credible information available that supports the notion that airline pilots over age 60 pose more of a safety risk than younger pilots.

If that is true, then why does the proposed rule change dictate that someone 60 or under must accompany the over-60 pilot?? Obviously, somebody, somewhere, believes it could be an issue. If it wasn't, there would be no need for the requirement.

And before somebody says "it's just to match the EU rule," well......why do they feel the need to have it??

 

[XBOEINGDRVR]

Not NO, but he!! NO

 

[pilotyip]

go back about 700 posts on this thread and you will find hte age 60 thing had nothing to do wit hsafety. It wasa pay issue for senior pilots, AAL head CR Smith wanted to get rid of hi paid pilots, so he made a deal with the head of FAA a WWII general buddy to pass this age restriction.

 

[1st Rate]

No way Jose!!

 

[Red Baron]

No!!!!

 

[Phaedrus]

AAAAARRRRGH! Stop with the ridiculous notion that this is somehow an age discrimination or any kind of discrimination issue! For the love of all that's in the least bit rational...

 

[81Horse]

disregard ...

 

[§kyye Candy]

Age 31 Rule

I think we ought to make the new retirement age 31... for one year. Then go back to age 60. This would be the most fair all the way around... a little something for everyone.


Hey, if you can't beat the "I've got mine" crowd, join 'em!

 

[stlflyguy]

If you're senior...

...then the sole reason you enjoy the schedules and QOL that you do is because someone retired at age 60.

I'll support the change to age 65 when there's a true shortage of pilots in the U.S., i.e., no one left on furlough.


stlflyguy

 

[Klako]

...then the sole reason you enjoy the schedules and QOL that you do is because someone retired at age 60.
stlflyguy

When I hired on to my company, I was older than 90% of the pilots senior to me. Many pilots have four or five different uniforms in their closet, gaining seniority only in age, and need to work beyond age 60 just to enjoy a decent retirement. Why should a 60 year old pilot be forced into poverty just so someone else can move up the seniority list?

The age 60 rule is a curse that must be broken, if we do not break that curse now we may never be rid of it.

 

[Cobra]

Nay... No means no. Get it?