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Age 60 informal poll

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Abolish the Age 60 Rule for other that Part 91 pilots?

  • Yea

    Votes: 668 35.5%
  • Nay

    Votes: 1,214 64.5%

  • Total voters
    1,882
Andy: You certainly seem very high on your horse.

Now do you or does anyone really think that I don't know the promotion schedule of the replacements when a sr. captain retires? And of course when I said that my replacement comes on the bottom of the pile as an RJ F/O I was speaking in the most basic terms of where a new person starts in the chain. I am surprised it has taken me three postings to clarify this to those who wanted to take exception to that post.

Now regarding your suggestion that the age 60 rule change is a long way off, that is just not correct. It will either be done through this congress or possibly early in the next or maybe not at all in congress. In that case the FAA will make the change. And contrary to their usual rule making process requiring several years, this change is moving at a very fast speed. The change by the FAA alone will be in months, not years. It may even be in time for me, but it does not look promising for me at this time.

Before I post, my apologies for the crass post. I am halfway around the world - flew as a passenger, not in the cockpit. When I posted, I was exhausted (extremely jetlagged) and had a few good German beers in me. I lacked restraint and let my feelings guide my post. But make no mistake about it; my true raw feelings were expressed toward you. Now, a response:

High horse? You were furloughed; not nearly as long as me, but you've been furloughed. How would you feel if the senior Capts were pushing for changing age 60 right when the end of the furlough tunnel was in sight? You would've been much more pissed than me.
I can't believe that you have the audacity to play the victim here. And I know that you are WELL aware of what your proposed age change will do to the junior pilots. One only needs to look at how those of us on the street got screwed by C2003. You think of no one but yourself; don't pretend to defend the profession.

You know as well as I that the upgrade chain is different during times when there are furloughed pilots. Don't try to BS your way out by expressing that an RJ FO will benefit from your retirement; it's likely that s/he will not - too many intermediate pilots jammed in the pipeline. And I'd like to point out that the junior RJ FO has more experience than you had when you were hired at UAL. What was your experience when you were a UAL newhire? I won't begin to address your address your arrogance about your valuable experience - accident statistics, based on 100,000 flt hours/accident, speak otherwise. I love how the pro-change crowd pushes accidents/pilot statistics rather than accidents/100K hrs. Just how much sick leave does the average pilot burn between 55 & 60? And a much greater percentage of flying time for senior pilots is spent in cruise flight, much safer than the high cycle flying experienced by young pilots.

If you think that an age change is going to happen anytime soon, you have zero understanding of the monumental change that took place for the midterm. I'd take the time to walk you through it, but it is obviously a waste of electrons. Just ask yourself why Bert Yetman (at ppf.org) has not yet published a December newsletter. It isn't because there is good news on the horizon.
I do not understand why you are in such denial over this; you've had a good career. Your career has ended. Those of us who had hoped to have a career half as good as yours are not happy that you are resistant to get your azz off property. I've tried the crowbar to your posterior to vacate your current seat; you now deserve a crowbar to your cranium case. I can't believe that you lack the intelligence to realize that you will be retiring very, very soon. Truly sad.
 
I do not understand why you are in such denial over this; you've had a good career. Your career has ended. Those of us who had hoped to have a career half as good as yours are not happy that you are resistant to get your azz off property. I've tried the crowbar to your posterior to vacate your current seat; you now deserve a crowbar to your cranium case. I can't believe that you lack the intelligence to realize that you will be retiring very, very soon. Truly sad.


Great job Andy!

I've really enjoyed your posts on the subject. They've really helped me understand the entire process, because the information is hard to find and difficult to follow.

Keep it up brother!

:beer:
 
Before I post, my apologies for the crass post. I am halfway around the world - flew as a passenger, not in the cockpit. When I posted, I was exhausted (extremely jetlagged) and had a few good German beers in me. I lacked restraint and let my feelings guide my post. But make no mistake about it; my true raw feelings were expressed toward you. Now, a response:

High horse? You were furloughed; not nearly as long as me, but you've been furloughed. How would you feel if the senior Capts were pushing for changing age 60 right when the end of the furlough tunnel was in sight? You would've been much more pissed than me.
I can't believe that you have the audacity to play the victim here. And I know that you are WELL aware of what your proposed age change will do to the junior pilots. One only needs to look at how those of us on the street got screwed by C2003. You think of no one but yourself; don't pretend to defend the profession.

You know as well as I that the upgrade chain is different during times when there are furloughed pilots. Don't try to BS your way out by expressing that an RJ FO will benefit from your retirement; it's likely that s/he will not - too many intermediate pilots jammed in the pipeline. And I'd like to point out that the junior RJ FO has more experience than you had when you were hired at UAL. What was your experience when you were a UAL newhire? I won't begin to address your address your arrogance about your valuable experience - accident statistics, based on 100,000 flt hours/accident, speak otherwise. I love how the pro-change crowd pushes accidents/pilot statistics rather than accidents/100K hrs. Just how much sick leave does the average pilot burn between 55 & 60? And a much greater percentage of flying time for senior pilots is spent in cruise flight, much safer than the high cycle flying experienced by young pilots.

If you think that an age change is going to happen anytime soon, you have zero understanding of the monumental change that took place for the midterm. I'd take the time to walk you through it, but it is obviously a waste of electrons. Just ask yourself why Bert Yetman (at ppf.org) has not yet published a December newsletter. It isn't because there is good news on the horizon.
I do not understand why you are in such denial over this; you've had a good career. Your career has ended. Those of us who had hoped to have a career half as good as yours are not happy that you are resistant to get your azz off property. I've tried the crowbar to your posterior to vacate your current seat; you now deserve a crowbar to your cranium case. I can't believe that you lack the intelligence to realize that you will be retiring very, very soon. Truly sad.

Right on.
 
As I have always said, this change will come in a way no one is expecting. Things are moving very fast on the change.

Andy: To answer your question about furlough, I was furloughed twice for 4-years and during that time ALPA was trying to change the rule. Their actions really didn't bother me.

Now lets talk about you and how tough it is. You have just accepted recall to only go on militry leave. This is all part of your plan to become a two career double dipper that takes advantage of the military LOA laws. And yet you find fault with me for just wanting to support my family. You really have no idea what is like to be placed in a position of being fired for just turning age 60.
 
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Correction UF... you're retiring. You're not getting fired. Fired means you no longer get any benefits and your ties to your old job are severed. That's not the case here.
 
As I have always said, this change will come in a way no one is expecting. Things are moving very fast on the change.

Andy: To answer your question about furlough, I was furloughed twice for 4-years and during that time ALPA was trying to change the rule. Their actions really didn't bother me.

Now lets talk about you and how tough it is. You have just accepted recall to only go on militry leave. This is all part of your plan to become a two career double dipper that takes advantage of the military LOA laws. And yet you find fault with me for just wanting to support my family. You really have no idea what is like to be placed in a position of being fired for just turning age 60.

From your postings, I'd say the most likely grounds for firing would be for attitude, not age.

PIPE
 
Correction UF... you're retiring. You're not getting fired. Fired means you no longer get any benefits and your ties to your old job are severed. That's not the case here.

Fired means that your employment is ended against your will.

Retiring is generally ending your employment on your own terms or when you are no longer capable of doing the job.
 
Just came back to this thread after a long and happy absence. If anyone's interested, here's my score:

Andy ... you da man! Thanks for your military service. Hang in there my friend ... this will all be a distant fuzzy memory soon enough!

UF ... you are still an A$$HOLE! 1/29 can't come soon enough for pompous arrogant dorks like yourself. Was that really you with that whiny little kid voice telling Marion you were going to end up on food stamps if you couldn't work another 5 years? God almighty you are a tool!

Prussian ... sorry, but you too are a dork for not figuring out the above!

Flopgut ... great use of your cranium! I like your comments.

pilotyip ... for the love of baby jesus .. get a freakin' degree will ya! Another old geezer with a marginal career and terrible advice for the youngsters.

Freight Dog ... right on brother!

BBB
 
Fired means that your employment is ended against your will.

Retiring is generally ending your employment on your own terms or when you are no longer capable of doing the job.

That is absolutely, 100% retarded. There's just no other word for it.

So you agree that UF is being fired? I guess he won't get any of his benefits? Nobody that gets fired gets benefits.

Retiring, according to you, is ending your employment when you are no longer capable of doing your job. Why don't you just prove my point for me??
That is exactly what the UF's and Klakos of the world would do if left to their own devices. They would fly until they felt that they were incapable of doing their job. Problem is, they would be the last two people on the freaking globe to recognize that they needed to hang it up.

PIPE
 
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BBB: I don't often agree with your posts but that was one of the best I have read on here in a long time.

Nice summation of the players and the issues!

I would also like to add my thanks to Andy for all the info over the past several months.

FJ
 

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