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Age 60 Battle vs ALPA

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FoxHunter

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Posts
679
www.apaad.org

August 17, 2005



RE: Revocation of ALPA Dues Check Off.



To say that we pilots are disgruntled with ALPA’s support of the Age 60 Rule would be somewhat of an understatement.



A good number ALPA pilots have approached me recently suggesting that resignation from ALPA would be a wise response to ALPA's position on the Age 60 rule. Many of these are very experienced individuals who have fought on behalf of their profession either as strikers at CAL, EAL, etc., or they are those who honored picket lines rather than take jobs, such as the Braniff pilots did.



To resign would, in effect, mean to go on strike against ALPA over its decadent and unethical position. I also know that it is difficult for many pilots to resign ALPA and "agency shop" contractual provisions would mean they would have to pay “germane expenses” anyway.



Therefore, the idea came up that, we should terminate our Dues Check Off (DCO) agreements with ALPA, thereby, delivering to the Association a meaningful message of discontent. Several FedEx pilots have informed me that they have already initiated the process. Current ranking MEC members at other airlines have told me that terminating DCO is a meaningful endeavor that causes increased administrative workload for ALPA.



Revoking DCO means that ALPA will have to send you a paper statement every month and you will need to write a check to them. Indications are that you may delay payment for several or many months before they threaten you with "Bad Standing," at which point you may catch up by sending in a check.



This is, in my opinion, an important inter-airline act of civil disobedience that is intended to get ALPA's attention.

It is up to each individual to make the decision for his-self based on ALPA's position on Age 60. If ALPA fails to respond, I expect to see resignations.



A number of pilots have informed me that they have also terminated their ALPA PAC contributions in protest over Age 60.



To revoke authorization of Dues Check Off: Send an email to:



[email protected]



Provide your name, airline, and ALPA number. State that you wish to revoke your authorization for Dues Check Off because of ALPA’s Age 60 Rule position! Let’s have some fun!







Gary L. Cottingham
Communications Director
Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination
Indianapolis, Indiana
317.513.0099 Sprint
317.498.6383 Verizon
[email protected]
www.apaad.org
 
ALPA is basically a democratic organization in that it's votes that affect its policies. Becoming a non-member means no vote which means no input. Their protest will not have the desired effect.
 
Gary, what do you expect ALPA to do? We had an ALPA-wide survey in which a majority stated their wishes for ALPA's policy to remain unchanged on Age 60. Should we simply ignore the wishes of the majority to make the minority happy? I think not. ALPA has never operated in a way that seeks to appease the malcontents, and that's not going to change no matter how many cry-babies revoke their DCO status. If you want to change ALPA policy, then you'll need to convince a majority of the membership that it's a good idea. Until then, stop yer bitchin'.
 
i doubt this will be a very effective way to change the rule. it will probably alienate you even more from the rest of the alpa pilots you work with. work couldn't be much fun these days. :)
 
Last edited:
Age 60 is a safety issue. How many 60 year old policmen or firemen do you see out there? Pilots over age 60 have lost many functions---including needing to go to the bathroom a heck of a lot more--(at least our 59 year old pilots do)---and that is annoying. I am 40, and I am already forgetting stuff----think about 60 year old pilots. Sure, there may be a few that are supermen, but most are NOT. Ever needed a 62 year old Fireman to carry you backwards down a flaming staircase after you were knocked out? That is in his job description. Could he do it? Probably not. The Supreme Court just ruled that some jobs could have age discrimination (like those I have described) and threw out the lawsuit from those Southwest pilots. Time to go out on the golf course. If you didn't save enough or had 3 wivies, that is your fault. You knew the "rules" going in to this. ALPA also took a poll and the motion LOST. APA too.



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Age 60 is a safety issue. How many 60 year old policmen or firemen do you see out there? Pilots over age 60 have lost many functions---including needing to go to the bathroom a heck of a lot more--(at least our 59 year old pilots do)---and that is annoying. I am 40, and I am already forgetting stuff----think about 60 year old pilots. Sure, there may be a few that are supermen, but most are NOT. Ever needed a 62 year old Fireman to carry you backwards down a flaming staircase after you were knocked out? That is in his job description. Could he do it? Probably not. The Supreme Court just ruled that some jobs could have age discrimination (like those I have described) and threw out the lawsuit from those Southwest pilots. Time to go out on the golf course. If you didn't save enough or had 3 wivies, that is your fault. You knew the "rules" going in to this. ALPA also took a poll and the motion LOST. APA too.



Bye Bye--General Lee

Agreed, age 60 is a safety issue for ALPA. Just like the three pilots that were required to fly the B-737. How come we now have all these unsafe 737s flying around today with only two pilots?:)

The JAA in Europe has changed the age to 65, Japan has gone to 65, Canada, Australia, and NZ have no max age.
 
Confessing to being a Union Buster?

Gotta wonder what FoxHunter's true agenda is when he is inflaming non-union sentiment in the middle of stalled negotiations at his company. Might be wiser to hold this internal pi$$ing contest in the bathroom or hold off until after the contract was wrapped up. If he did that, he could ensure he has a decent contract to fly under until his early (work induced) demise.

If'n he wants to live outta a suitcase at 68 and die young...that's his choice, but like I said, this is a strange time to be doing this....almost like he is an agent provocateur sowing discontent with union leadership. Comes straight out of the union busting guide book. He is advocating taking action that hampers legitimate union business and distracts from negotiating. Why not take the time instead to "educate" your fellow pilots on the issue? Stuff my mailbox with poorly thought-out arguments and sweeping generalizations like that other guy.

This guy is already a non-member, not just "not on dues check-off". He already quit the organization because (I believe) he thinks it has no value to him. So why does he care what position ALPA takes? If he thinks that ALPA's position is that important, then he believes ALPA has relevence, then he oughtta pay dues like the rest of us and get a voice. I'll hear him then, I'll listen to his arguments...if he paid his dues.

The bottom line, is that he knows ALPA's position has relevence and wants the dues paying members who are already doing his "heavy lifting" to do even more by taking up his cause. FoxHunter has proven he is a fair weather friend and I find it funny that he is involved with any organization of pilots "united" for or against anything because I can only see his self-interest at work.

Looks like he is on the "Payroll"...and I don't mean just the checks on the 15th and the 30th.
 

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