Age 60 Battle vs ALPA

[General Lee]

As far as the age rules in Europe and Japan etc-----that is just an accident waiting to happen. I believe the English version has the Captains demoted to FO, which is still unsafe IMO. IF you want to keep flying after 60, go corporate----which won't endanger as many lives. (unless you hit a 747)

General,

safety issue?? what age limit does your ALPA BOY DUANE WORTH support with CANADIAN ALPA?? ill let you tell everyone....

you'll be singing a different tune in about 6 months....

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I love the little "You'll see soon what it means...." hits that Jetblue people like to give. I have no doubt I will never have a pension. That is fine with most of us here at DL. Everyone that has the chance to get one or part of one is GONE. Fine---bye now. The rest of us will have to live on 401Ks or whatever other incomes we can bring to the table.

"You'll be singing a different tune in about 6 months...." What does that mean with regards to age 60? I don't want the over 60 crowd to stay around anyway, besides the safety part of this. OVer 60 flying is dangerous, and Duane Worthless conducted a survey and he saw the result---most people at ALPA agree.

Let's hope Jetblue never gets into financial problems---and with the new E190 rates---that doesn't ever look possible. Good for Neeleman and Bushey. High fives all around.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

yeah, corporate aviation is a good dumping ground for old airline pilots.

....of course the loudest opposition to extending the 60 rule will most probably come from the under 40 crowd at the fully funded pension plan carriers (fdx,ups,delta ) ....and for obvious reasons non of which are safety related.

Delta's plan will likely be dropped, which is fine with most of us. The guys that could take their's have left, and the rest of us understand that we won't likely have anything more than a 401K. Our airline had a lump sum 50% option, and that gave an exit to over 2000 Captains since May of 04. Other airlines that only have the anuity (like NW and CAL) would be more likely to give up their young to keep theirs. Not us. Our old guys are leaving in mass numbers. Good for them, and goodbye.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[N1kawotg]

over sixty is dangerous? Then why let anyone over sixty fly any aircraft. The FAA doesn't think its safety when a 62 can fly a charter. Its not safe for just 121, gimma a break. If it really safety, ground all 60 year olds.

 

[General Lee]

over sixty is dangerous? Then why let anyone over sixty fly any aircraft. The FAA doesn't think its safety when a 62 can fly a charter. Its not safe for just 121, gimma a break. If it really safety, ground all 60 year olds.

I think 15 year olds could fly planes too---and passengers at that! Give them commercial licsences too. Yeah. Most of them play video games and could probably handle 747s too... Yeah. Gimmee a break too pal. Besides lost hearing, and lost brain cells, they have three wives and need to keep funding the divorce settlements. Too bad, they knew the rules going in. Next, you will be with the Jetblue guys on wanting to marry their own sisters.....(oh wait, we will FIND OUT WHAT THAT MEANS IN TWO WEEKS.....or SIX MONTHS......or ONE NIGHT)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FoxHunter]

I think 15 year olds could fly planes too---and passengers at that! Give them commercial licsences too. Yeah. Most of them play video games and could probably handle 747s too... Yeah. Gimmee a break too pal. Besides lost hearing, and lost brain cells, they have three wives and need to keep funding the divorce settlements. Too bad, they knew the rules going in. Next, you will be with the Jetblue guys on wanting to marry their own sisters.....(oh wait, we will FIND OUT WHAT THAT MEANS IN TWO WEEKS.....???)


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, You get my vote for the ALPA poster child on the age 60 issue. Thanks

 

[miles otoole]

General, You get my vote for the ALPA poster child on the age 60 issue. Thanks

Until his wife leaves him for a 35 Y/O Comair CA, that is.

 

[jbucpt]

You'll be singing a different tune in about 6 months...." What does that mean with regards to age 60? I don't want the over 60 crowd to stay around anyway, besides the safety part of this. OVer 60 flying is dangerous, and Duane Worthless conducted a survey and he saw the result---most people at ALPA agree.



so what your saying is: Duane Worth thinks its safe for Canadian Airline Pilots to fly past 60, but, its unsafe for American airline pilots to fly over 60 because ALPA took a vote?????????

 

[semperfido]

they have three wives and need to keep funding the divorce settlements. Too bad, they knew the rules going in.

now we are getting to the crux of the matter. GenLee doesn't want his upgrade plans to be disrupted. rules are changing all the time. people who thought they would have pensions, don't anymore. new wives, kids at 50+. it's all changing. 60 at p121 will too. you'll see. patience.

 

[Purpledog]

Several FedEx pilots have informed me that they have already initiated the process.

Big f'*&@ deal,If I remember correctly from the survey results, FedEx had one of the highest anti rule change percentages. However, I guess you weren't privy to the results since you're a leech. Ignore him General, that's what we do.

Lets face it, we are becoming professional "monitors."

Please don't apply for any contract negotiating committee. That kind of, "We're just lucky to have jobs", attitude will earn you an equally unimpressive QOL.

 

[General Lee]

now we are getting to the crux of the matter. GenLee doesn't want his upgrade plans to be disrupted. rules are changing all the time. people who thought they would have pensions, don't anymore. new wives, kids at 50+. it's all changing. 60 at p121 will too. you'll see. patience.

Thanks Dad. Thanks for all of the advice. How much do I owe you? Are you sure it will change? Are you sure? The Supreme Court ruled against it, ALPA and the APA are against it, but you are sure...... Ummmm ok. Saying "patience" will make it happen. Ok. Riiiiight. (and it aint just me that wants them gone.......for safety reasons primarily......)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Until his wife leaves him for a 35 Y/O Comair CA, that is.

If that is what she wants then help her pack.

 

[FoxHunter]

Big f'*&@ deal,If I remember correctly from the survey results, FedEx had one of the highest anti rule change percentages. However, I guess you weren't privy to the results since you're a leech. Ignore him General, that's what we do.


Please don't apply for any contract negotiating committee. That kind of, "We're just lucky to have jobs", attitude will earn you an equally unimpressive QOL.

Hey dog, I did not write the letter.

 

[TonyC]

Gary, what do you expect ALPA to do?

Who's Gary?





.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Who's Gary?





.

Gary L. Cottingham
Communications Director
Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination
Indianapolis, Indiana

 

[semperfido]

Thanks Dad. Thanks for all of the advice. How much do I owe you? Are you sure it will change? Are you sure? The Supreme Court ruled against it, ALPA and the APA are against it, but you are sure...... Ummmm ok. Saying "patience" will make it happen. Ok. Riiiiight. (and it aint just me that wants them gone.......for safety reasons primarily......)


Bye Bye--General Lee

sorry you can't read the handwriting on the wall. by the time you are 55, i bet you change your tune GL.

 

[TonyC]

This bears repeating:

FoxHunter has proven he is a fair weather friend and I find it funny that he is involved with any organization of pilots "united" for or against anything because I can only see his self-interest at work.

Please don't feed the animals.

 

[TonyC]

Gary L. Cottingham
Communications Director
Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination
Indianapolis, Indiana

And he is important to me why? OH, lemme guess, that came from FoxHunter's posts? LOL Don't tell me y'all are wasting your time reading his drivel.



Nevermind, I get it now.



If he wants a voice he can pay dues. Until then, he can talk to himself.




.

 

[General Lee]

Until his wife leaves him for a 35 Y/O Comair CA, that is.

She would leave a 40 year old Delta 767-400 FO for a 35 year old Comair (Mesa) Captain? Doubt it. Really, I doubt it. Even after a Chap 11 I would make 3 times what the Mesa guy would. And, she loves my computer skills and that I lift wieghts a lot. She does. Sorry.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

sorry you can't read the handwriting on the wall. by the time you are 55, i bet you change your tune GL.

Man, I hope not. I am doing more now to try to help with my eventual retirement. I am staying with ONE wife, and I am investing on the side in several side businesses. Also, my wife will eventually get millions from her dad's property deals in Florida. Just remember, you can fall in love with a rich girl just as fast as you can with a poor one. I hope to be on one of my own golf courses in FLA at 55.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[semperfido]

Man, I hope not. I am doing more now to try to help with my eventual retirement. I am staying with ONE wife, and I am investing on the side in several side businesses. Also, my wife will eventually get millions from her dad's property deals in Florida. Just remember, you can fall in love with a rich girl just as fast as you can with a poor one. I hope to be on one of my own golf courses in FLA at 55.


Bye Bye--General Lee

now i get it...well why didn't you just say that in the first place and here i thought you may just be argumentative. perhaps i could apply for a job in the pro shop because i doubt i will be able to drag this big bag all over the world much past 60.

 

[General Lee]

now i get it...well why didn't you just say that in the first place and here i thought you may just be argumentative. perhaps i could apply for a job in the pro shop because i doubt i will be able to drag this big bag all over the world much past 60.

I can't allow that---anyone after age 60 must ride in (not drive) a cart because I don't want them to have a heart attack wheeling that thing up hill. But, you can apply for Pro Shop desk cleark (along with the multiple ex-strippers I employ in there to draw in customers---especially over age 60 old men).(the strippers will drive the carts too)

And, I am argumentative---ask anyone on here. Most of the time it is all in good fun....... Take care.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[F18-FDX]

Foxhunter is a leech, a non-member and a SCAB. Put him on your ignore list. He never had a vote because he chose not to have that opportunity. The guy is an idiot, everybody at FedEx knows it.

The Supreme Court voted. Done.

 

[General Lee]

Foxhunter is a leech, a non-member and a SCAB. Put him on your ignore list. He never had a vote because he chose not to have that opportunity. The guy is an idiot, everybody at FedEx knows it.

The Supreme Court voted. Done.

Ouch. Foxhunter, is that true? Come on now, out with it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DaveGriffin]

She would leave a 40 year old Delta 767-400 FO for a 35 year old Comair (Mesa) Captain? Doubt it. Really, I doubt it. Even after a Chap 11 I would make 3 times what the Mesa guy would. And, she loves my computer skills and that I lift wieghts a lot. She does. Sorry.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You are quite a catch GL. Keep working on those oblique abs. Chicks really dig those Song 757-200 FOs. You probably have a 764 trip once every third month.

After supporting the scr*wing of the pilots junior to him at Delta, GL now will do everything he can to support the scr*wing of those senior to him. It’s all about GL.

It looks like you understand the ALPA playbook pretty well, cry wolf about safety whenever you want to make a point. Pilots over 60 are unsafe…… FAs over 50 are unsafe……

 

[General Lee]

You are quite a catch GL. Keep working on those oblique abs. Chicks really dig those Song 757-200 FOs. You probably have a 764 trip once every third month.

After supporting the scr*wing of the pilots junior to him at Delta, GL now will do everything he can to support the scr*wing of those senior to him. It’s all about GL.

It looks like you understand the ALPA playbook pretty well, cry wolf about safety whenever you want to make a point. Pilots over 60 are unsafe…… FAs over 50 are unsafe……

I do have nice abs. I do 50 situps after each post. (do the math--50 times 5000)
As far as the senior pilots, well, they will now be the guys in their early early 50s or late 40s. They will now be flying planes larger than they would have until they almost retired. They will make close to what they might have made on smaller aircraft with the old contract. (maybe with another 10% pay cut or so) So, the new senior guys will be ok, and they still have 10 or so years to go to try to make up for some of the pension loss. 10 years of being senior on big equipment is good for them. I am not $crewing any of them, the company is. And, the junior guys have come back in some decent numbers. There are still 509 out, but I bet most have gone on to other airlines. I hope everyone else who wants to come back, eventually does. Everyone else here will do the best they can to have a good life flying something big with less pay. That is the way it goes. As far as senior stews, they need to go if they are not happy. Attitude is everything, and most still are "living" in the 60's---remembering the good ole days. Except, back then, they actually had to serve a meal on the DC-8 flight from ATL to MCO. Now, they don't even want to serve drinks. Sad but true Dave. Allowing them to retire (best case scenario) and hiring new, FRESH, cheaper labor that would actually ENJOY the job---and enjoy travelling the WORLD (Dayton, with an 8 hour layover at the airport) is really what we need. Now, we only have 14,000 older flight attendants that are jaded, or bored and it shows. In the cockpit we can hide that attitude if we have it (I don't)----they cannot.

Also, I do fly Song 757s a lot, and I will be bidding the 764 in ATL on this next bid. I can't wait to fly with the super senior stews with attitudes to HNL. Will your wife be one of them Dave? Aloha.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[TheDonger]

Until his wife leaves him for a 35 Y/O Comair CA, that is.

That would have to be one crazy bitch!

 

[TheDonger]

Out to pasture you old bastards.

Why all the hostility? Did some old bastard Captain beat you with a crash ax?

 

[miles otoole]

Man, I hope not. I am doing more now to try to help with my eventual retirement. I am staying with ONE wife, and I am investing on the side in several side businesses. Also, my wife will eventually get millions from her dad's property deals in Florida. Just remember, you can fall in love with a rich girl just as fast as you can with a poor one. I hope to be on one of my own golf courses in FLA at 55.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Welcome to General Lee's miniature golf.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/19/news/fortune500/delta.reut/index.htm

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc.warned pilots Friday that its cash stockpile had dropped below a key level that could allow it to seek more concessions from the pilots' union, a company spokesman said.

 

[General Lee]

Welcome to General Lee's miniature golf.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/19/news/fortune500/delta.reut/index.htm

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc.warned pilots Friday that its cash stockpile had dropped below a key level that could allow it to seek more concessions from the pilots' union, a company spokesman said.

Thanks Miles, and I bet you can't wait to play there. But, you must be over 4 feet tall, and I think you may be well short of that.

As I have explained before, that memo was sent to us when we hit a specific cash level---and that was negotiated in our latest contract. The company had to tell us. There hasn't been any negotitations on future pay cuts, although that may happen shortly. As far as Delta going extinct, I highly doubt it---especially looking at United and USAir's playbooks. United still doesn't have a plan---3 years into Chap 11. I will bid up to the 764 to minimize any pay cut. Thanks for caring. Wear platform shoes to my miniature golf land----and you may make the cut.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[727gm]

Age 60 Rule was put in place by Pete Quesada, FAA Chief, I believe, for his father-in-law(?) C.R. Smith. He later became an American board member also, quid pro quo. Pure corruption.

Comparing airline pilots to police and firefighters is assinine. Flying is a sedentary job, and we all know that the medical standards could probably be relaxed, if anything.

Hard to believe any honest airline pilot could say to his peers, with a straight face, that flying 121 to age 65 would be unsafe. If the outcome of any given inflight incapacitation was ever really in doubt, then why are FO's given a whole vote in ALPA?