Age 60 Battle vs ALPA

[General Lee]

Age 60 is a political issue. Wake up and smell the BK!

Good one. Wake up and smell the BK. I sure hope you don't EVER have to go through anything like that. You don't think you will, though. Is limiting Police officer and Firefighter job terms also political? Wrong again dumba$$.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FoxHunter]

MD11 Captain, huh? Thought so. You have a little more invested in this issue than most. Well, you may be Superman and have great health, but most of you DO NOT. As far as the 737 and the GIB (Guy in Back), that had nothing to do with health. We used to have ROPES (Real Old Pilots) fly FE on the L1011 and 727 until we got rid of them, but they were not allowed to "fly" the plane. I think the old timers should be retained in some way----like recurrent ground school or sim instructors. As far as the age rules in Europe and Japan etc-----that is just an accident waiting to happen. I believe the English version has the Captains demoted to FO, which is still unsafe IMO. IF you want to keep flying after 60, go corporate----which won't endanger as many lives. (unless you hit a 747)


Bye Bye--General Lee

Getting a little touchy General Lee. As far as the 737 it also had nothing to do about safety, but that was the ALPA line.

 

[FoxHunter]

Every other professional in the world strives for a fairly early retirement at a fairly young age. It is interesting that 121 airline pilots are the only professional group that is actually fighting to work longer. With the average salary and benefits of an airline pilot, if you cannot afford to retire at age 60, then yes, it is a mental issue.

Most people today work longer, health insurance, pension problems, plus many others. Yes it is a mental problem for pilots that want to. They have this problem of really liking their job.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Gee, somehow I think those that are against the over 60 rule would change their minds in a heartbeat if/when they lose their pension.

Yeah, only $46,000 a year (PBGC). Again I say, if this is your yearly pension, and you will not survive on this plus social security (12000,?), it is a mental issue.
This is also considering someone who has made well into the 6 figures for a long time. Ahh, the lost art of saving money (living within one's means).

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Most people today work longer, health insurance, pension problems, plus many others. Yes it is a mental problem for pilots that want to. They have this problem of really liking their job.

Buy a boat, get a girlfriend. Thats fun too. Oh, wait, thats what gottem in trouble in the first place. Second thought, dont do that.

 

[semperfido]

IF you want to keep flying after 60, go corporate----which won't endanger as many lives. (unless you hit a 747)

yeah, corporate aviation is a good dumping ground for old airline pilots.

....of course the loudest opposition to extending the 60 rule will most probably come from the under 40 crowd at the fully funded pension plan carriers (fdx,ups,delta ) ....and for obvious reasons none of which are safety related.

 

[FoxHunter]

Yeah, only $46,000 a year (PBGC). Again I say, if this is your yearly pension, and you will not survive on this plus social security (12000,?), it is a mental issue.
This is also considering someone who has made well into the 6 figures for a long time. Ahh, the lost art of saving money (living within one's means).

$46,000(PBGC)??? Hmm....OOPS you are talking about a figure for someone that retires at age 65. The pilot that retires at age 60 gives on about $28,000 per year. Now if that pilot happens to be married his wife is entitled to survivor benefits which brings the amount down to around $25,000 per year. Reduced social security two years later or full five to six years later

Now most of these pilots did plan. They planned on what they thought was a secure, funded, ERISA protected, ALPA contracted pension. They have since learned that many of these pensions were not worth the paper they were written on. Now the President of ALPA has not had his $149,000 per year pension promised reduced. $220,000+ if he serves another term.

 

[HughBeamont]

Out to pasture you old bastards.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

$46,000(PBGC)??? Hmm....OOPS you are talking about a figure for someone that retires at age 65. The pilot that retires at age 60 gives on about $28,000 per year. Now if that pilot happens to be married his wife is entitled to survivor benefits which brings the amount down to around $25,000 per year. Reduced social security two years later or full five to six years later

Now most of these pilots did plan. They planned on what they thought was a secure, funded, ERISA protected, ALPA contracted pension. They have since learned that many of these pensions were not worth the paper they were written on. Now the President of ALPA has not had his $149,000 per year pension promised reduced. $220,000+ if he serves another term.

Ok, you win with the figures. I havent researched this hard. But, we are still talking about a person who made a substantial amount of money during their working years. It has been my experience that regular working folks do not feel sorry when they hear about the poor pilots pensions, and what they will be forced to survive on.

 

[jbucpt]

As far as the age rules in Europe and Japan etc-----that is just an accident waiting to happen. I believe the English version has the Captains demoted to FO, which is still unsafe IMO. IF you want to keep flying after 60, go corporate----which won't endanger as many lives. (unless you hit a 747)

General,

safety issue?? what age limit does your ALPA BOY DUANE WORTH support with CANADIAN ALPA?? ill let you tell everyone....

you'll be singing a different tune in about 6 months....

 

[General Lee]

As far as the age rules in Europe and Japan etc-----that is just an accident waiting to happen. I believe the English version has the Captains demoted to FO, which is still unsafe IMO. IF you want to keep flying after 60, go corporate----which won't endanger as many lives. (unless you hit a 747)

General,

safety issue?? what age limit does your ALPA BOY DUANE WORTH support with CANADIAN ALPA?? ill let you tell everyone....

you'll be singing a different tune in about 6 months....

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I love the little "You'll see soon what it means...." hits that Jetblue people like to give. I have no doubt I will never have a pension. That is fine with most of us here at DL. Everyone that has the chance to get one or part of one is GONE. Fine---bye now. The rest of us will have to live on 401Ks or whatever other incomes we can bring to the table.

"You'll be singing a different tune in about 6 months...." What does that mean with regards to age 60? I don't want the over 60 crowd to stay around anyway, besides the safety part of this. OVer 60 flying is dangerous, and Duane Worthless conducted a survey and he saw the result---most people at ALPA agree.

Let's hope Jetblue never gets into financial problems---and with the new E190 rates---that doesn't ever look possible. Good for Neeleman and Bushey. High fives all around.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

yeah, corporate aviation is a good dumping ground for old airline pilots.

....of course the loudest opposition to extending the 60 rule will most probably come from the under 40 crowd at the fully funded pension plan carriers (fdx,ups,delta ) ....and for obvious reasons non of which are safety related.

Delta's plan will likely be dropped, which is fine with most of us. The guys that could take their's have left, and the rest of us understand that we won't likely have anything more than a 401K. Our airline had a lump sum 50% option, and that gave an exit to over 2000 Captains since May of 04. Other airlines that only have the anuity (like NW and CAL) would be more likely to give up their young to keep theirs. Not us. Our old guys are leaving in mass numbers. Good for them, and goodbye.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[N1kawotg]

over sixty is dangerous? Then why let anyone over sixty fly any aircraft. The FAA doesn't think its safety when a 62 can fly a charter. Its not safe for just 121, gimma a break. If it really safety, ground all 60 year olds.

 

[General Lee]

over sixty is dangerous? Then why let anyone over sixty fly any aircraft. The FAA doesn't think its safety when a 62 can fly a charter. Its not safe for just 121, gimma a break. If it really safety, ground all 60 year olds.

I think 15 year olds could fly planes too---and passengers at that! Give them commercial licsences too. Yeah. Most of them play video games and could probably handle 747s too... Yeah. Gimmee a break too pal. Besides lost hearing, and lost brain cells, they have three wives and need to keep funding the divorce settlements. Too bad, they knew the rules going in. Next, you will be with the Jetblue guys on wanting to marry their own sisters.....(oh wait, we will FIND OUT WHAT THAT MEANS IN TWO WEEKS.....or SIX MONTHS......or ONE NIGHT)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FoxHunter]

I think 15 year olds could fly planes too---and passengers at that! Give them commercial licsences too. Yeah. Most of them play video games and could probably handle 747s too... Yeah. Gimmee a break too pal. Besides lost hearing, and lost brain cells, they have three wives and need to keep funding the divorce settlements. Too bad, they knew the rules going in. Next, you will be with the Jetblue guys on wanting to marry their own sisters.....(oh wait, we will FIND OUT WHAT THAT MEANS IN TWO WEEKS.....???)


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, You get my vote for the ALPA poster child on the age 60 issue. Thanks

 

[miles otoole]

General, You get my vote for the ALPA poster child on the age 60 issue. Thanks

Until his wife leaves him for a 35 Y/O Comair CA, that is.

 

[jbucpt]

You'll be singing a different tune in about 6 months...." What does that mean with regards to age 60? I don't want the over 60 crowd to stay around anyway, besides the safety part of this. OVer 60 flying is dangerous, and Duane Worthless conducted a survey and he saw the result---most people at ALPA agree.



so what your saying is: Duane Worth thinks its safe for Canadian Airline Pilots to fly past 60, but, its unsafe for American airline pilots to fly over 60 because ALPA took a vote?????????

 

[semperfido]

they have three wives and need to keep funding the divorce settlements. Too bad, they knew the rules going in.

now we are getting to the crux of the matter. GenLee doesn't want his upgrade plans to be disrupted. rules are changing all the time. people who thought they would have pensions, don't anymore. new wives, kids at 50+. it's all changing. 60 at p121 will too. you'll see. patience.

 

[Purpledog]

Several FedEx pilots have informed me that they have already initiated the process.

Big f'*&@ deal,If I remember correctly from the survey results, FedEx had one of the highest anti rule change percentages. However, I guess you weren't privy to the results since you're a leech. Ignore him General, that's what we do.

Lets face it, we are becoming professional "monitors."

Please don't apply for any contract negotiating committee. That kind of, "We're just lucky to have jobs", attitude will earn you an equally unimpressive QOL.

 

[General Lee]

now we are getting to the crux of the matter. GenLee doesn't want his upgrade plans to be disrupted. rules are changing all the time. people who thought they would have pensions, don't anymore. new wives, kids at 50+. it's all changing. 60 at p121 will too. you'll see. patience.

Thanks Dad. Thanks for all of the advice. How much do I owe you? Are you sure it will change? Are you sure? The Supreme Court ruled against it, ALPA and the APA are against it, but you are sure...... Ummmm ok. Saying "patience" will make it happen. Ok. Riiiiight. (and it aint just me that wants them gone.......for safety reasons primarily......)


Bye Bye--General Lee