AF, Navy Fighter ?

[Spidey]

Scrapdog... You're a frickin' tool.

J.A.

You must be hoot on the flight deck....

...crappup doesn't fly any f-22's...he just rides in them and doesn't touch anything...for fear he'll screw up what he doesn't know is happening...kinda like on this thread...

 

[BiffF15]

Without changing my plea that we just kick back and have a few, I will say that I was directing my statements at your generalities about the services.

I think if we keep the bashing out of it (that contributes nothing) we can have a decent, friendly discussion about some of these topics.

Huggy Bear can take care of himself, plus I have no dog in the Afgan arugment.

As far as multi-mission, sometimes I think diversity can make you an overall better aviator. You can be great at motor sports and still be a top notch snow skier, and maybe at the same time be good at making furnature. Same with doing multi-mission flying. No missions are so complex that you have to only train to one.

I teach about 9 different phases of tac-air and feel I have a good grasp on all of them, all while flying for the airlines. If i'm out of a phase for a while I will take the extra time and study up so i'm doing the best job for the students. You need to make a effort and not be lazy when doing this kind of diverse flying and I think this is where guys fail. They would rather be in the club throwing down some j-weed or grog then studying up for a mission they haven't done in a while, relying on their ego to get them through.

Yes, doing mulitiple missions probably makes for a better aviator. What it doesn't make him better at is any ONE mission since he has to spread himself around. We do ONE mission in the aircraft I fly, and believe me I know we do it better than the multi-mission aircraft (F22 aside as it's such a technological advance). If you think a multi-mission guy can do any one mission better than a single mission guy you are sadly mistaken. The level of competency, understanding, and execution will be of another magnitude between the two.

What do you do 9 different phases of tac-air in? If it's a trainer aircraft you are comparing apples to oranges. Doing more than one type of mission in a radar equipped fighter is a LOT different than some form flying, or a low level with Joey Bag O'Donuts.

Without changing my plea that we just kick back and have a few, I will say that I was directing my statements at your generalities about the services.

You will have to explain where I made "generalities" about the other branches. I made very specific comments / questions to HB (still unanswered). I think there might be some "little man" syndrome going on here.

Exactly my point. I'm talking about who was there at the start of the invasion. You're talking about training and staff tours. In afghanistan 3/4 of the ordnance was dropped by air force big wing bombers. The remaining 1/4 was dropped by navy tacair.

HuggyBear what exactly is your point with this statement. Are you happy that USN Tac Air dropped the smallest portion of bombs, or just that they got invited to drop anything? I thought the USAF heavy bombers were doing everything from CAS (cave spelunking) to area denial while maintaining the cap for hours on end without need of tankers. Or are we talking about accuracy of a fighter compared to a bomber? Please explain.

HB and Bjamin what you both have to understand is I completely understand and agree with the reasons / needs to have integrated forces (both from with in the US as well as exterior to it). What you don't understand is I'm not bagging on the USN, USMC, or the USAF. I will say each branch trains to a different level based on what they think they will have to execute to in a war and their training plans, proficiency, and expectations are all tailored by and suited to that. No USAF squadron trains to go to the boat each year. However, they do train to be a part of a large force integration and the complexities that go with it vice what can be expected launching off the boat (only so many assets one can get into a package when they use the same moving runway). Both are results of what a squadron is training for as well as what the branch expects to do in war time.

 

[rhinodriver]

what you both have to understand is I completely understand and agree with the reasons / needs to have integrated forces (both from with in the US as well as exterior to it). What you don't understand is I'm not bagging on the USN, USMC, or the USAF. I will say each branch trains to a different level based on what they think they will have to execute to in a war and their training plans, proficiency, and expectations are all tailored by and suited to that. No USAF squadron trains to go to the boat each year. However, they do train to be a part of a large force integration and the complexities that go with it vice what can be expected launching off the boat (only so many assets one can get into a package when they use the same moving runway). Both are results of what a squadron is training for as well as what the branch expects to do in war time.

Finally a good point and the purse swinging can stop...

As you say each branch trains for what they envision will be they way they fight. This leads to differences in training and execution but in an increasingly joint world the differences are narrowing.

I would say that being a "jack of all trades" is the more challenging factor when it comes to operational readiness than "the boat". Once you are in the fleet prepairing for the boat takes less time than most of the pundants on this thread seem to think.

Obviously if you do only one mission and execute the same tactics over and over you'll have it wired. What you get with a multi-role platform (like the Hornet) is well trained crews in various missions at major cost savings over individual mission specific platforms - which would be impossible on the Navy budget. You also get a flexible force that can get to most theaters quickly and don't need basing rights. We will always rely on inorganic tanking to go deep in country.

The bottom line is each are professional in thier own ways and fulfill the mission.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Fellas.... all the girls have gone home. They will try the 9-5 office boys tomorrow....

 

[DaveGriffin]

Air Force = Airplanes
Navy = Boats


You decide!

ExAF,

AF = 2 piddle paks away from the fight
Navy = 300 nm away from the fight

The Boat makes the difference between 12 hours to engage and 45 min to engage.

Either way, the bad guys get eliminated. It just happens faster when the Navy is on the job.

You decide!

 

[Scrapdog]

ExAF,

AF = 2 piddle paks away from the fight
Navy = 300 nm away from the fight

The Boat makes the difference between 12 hours to engage and 45 min to engage.

You decide.

Is this F'in loser really posting about flying fighers - Navy or AF? Unfortunately Dave, you don't know the first thing about the military nor aviation. The irony is killing me.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Is this F'in loser really posting about flying fighers - Navy or AF? Unfortunately Dave, you don't know the first thing about the military nor aviation. The irony is killing me.

Tell me where I'm wrong, Maj. Piddle Pak.

Your typical AF thinking is what will get you guys disbanded and your mission distributed between the Navy, Marines and Army.

The AF adds little value to the fight that the other other branches don't already deliver. Your ever increasing budget bloat for aircraft, that don't contribute to the current war effort, always seem to get your congressional budget requests reduced.

It is interesting to note that the AF says its biggest battle is political, not operational. You guys are big time pussies.

 

[anotherF16pilot]

Listen up!

Tell me where I'm wrong, Maj. Piddle Pak.

Your typical AF thinking is what will get you guys disbanded and your mission distributed between the Navy, Marines and Army.

The AF adds little value to the fight that the other other branches don't already deliver. Your ever increasing budget bloat for aircraft, that don't contribute to the current war effort, always seem to get your congressional budget requests reduced.

It is interesting to note that the AF says its biggest battle is political, not operational. You guys are big time pussies.

Warriors,

We all need to realize that sometimes each services capabilities overlap but there are also times when they are unique.

As far as the overlap, most of this is in regards to putting the smack on bad guys. This is what makes our fighting force flexible.

Now, there are also things about each service that make them unique. People choose to serve in whichever branch for a myriad of reasons but regardless you're probably going to be most familiar with your own branch's capabilities. You can bang your chest and say "I'm better than you!" all day but that just means you aren't aware of what other dudes bring to the fight. Things that you might have to depend on to do your own job. I hate to admit it myself but the Air Force is more than just airplanes.

And by the way, I AM BETTER THAN YOU!!! LOL

Over.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Warriors,

We all need to realize that sometimes each services capabilities overlap but there are also times when they are unique.

As far as the overlap, most of this is in regards to putting the smack on bad guys. This is what makes our fighting force flexible.

Now, there are also things about each service that make them unique. People choose to serve in whichever branch for a myriad of reasons but regardless you're probably going to be most familiar with your own branch's capabilities. You can bang your chest and say "I'm better than you!" all day but that just means you aren't aware of what other dudes bring to the fight. Things that you might have to depend on to do your own job. I hate to admit it myself but the Air Force is more than just airplanes.

And by the way, I AM BETTER THAN YOU!!! LOL

Over.

anotherF16pilot,

Your position is typical AF BS: "Everyone is good at what they do."

The AF is a waste of budget. It wa s mistake from the beginning. AF capabilities are redundant and/or not necessary (such as the AF Broadway production "Tops in Blue.")

 

[Future SNA]

I hate to admit it myself but the Air Force is more than just airplanes.

Please elaborate....popcorn & a coke standing by.