AF, Navy Fighter ?

[rhinodriver]

Well, Rhinodriver, I don't know how to answer that without starting a pissing contest. I obviously felt the same way about the individuals at the time, but it's very professional of you to call my professionalism into question without any idea what the circumstances were. But, if you've never experienced a TR violation in your distinguished career, then you are a very blessed fighter pilot.

Sorry dude but go back and reread your first post and then come back and tell me who started a pissing contest or who called who's professionalism into question.

I will give you one thing... The boat does put some limitations on training. We do lose sorties getting ready for carrier qualifications. Also, when we are underway good presentations from non-organic red air is hard to come by. There are fuel limitaions as well. Maybe two tactical intercepts before you're on ladder. Having said that... I don't see how that makes us cowboys or less professional.

Other AF guys. This is not supposed to be my view on how the Navy is better. Just don't appreciate being talked down to.

My rant is now over!

 

[BiffF15]

Sorry dude but go back and reread your first post and then come back and tell me who started a pissing contest or who called who's professionalism into question.

I will give you one thing... The boat does put some limitations on training. We do lose sorties getting ready for carrier qualifications. Also, when we are underway good presentations from non-organic red air is hard to come by. There are fuel limitaions as well. Maybe two tactical intercepts before you're on ladder. Having said that... I don't see how that makes us cowboys or less professional.

Other AF guys. This is not supposed to be my view on how the Navy is better. Just don't appreciate being talked down to.

My rant is now over!

Rhino,
The thing to remember is guys are passing "opinions" on here. Their opinions are based on observations and probably not on scientifically gathered data. Unfortunately a lot is lost in the delivery via email / blog.
When I went through F15 RTU (RAG) we were taught from the beginning that we (Eagles) are the keepers of the rules and no one honored the TR's like we did. During the first few years I agreed with that observation, however during the last 10 years it's not been so obvious as everyone has become better at doing the right thing. However, everyone makes mistakes Eagle Drivers included (had my worst bubble bust ever about two months ago).
A difference I noticed a few years ago was the difference between active duty and the guard / reserve. Based on experience alone I prefer to fight / train with the latter as you can do much more complex scenarios. Guard / Reserve squadrons average several times the experience of AD squadrons (my squadron has an average of 2200 hrs in the Eagle, plus several guys have time in lessor fighters...).
The point is everything depends on your point of view. Newman has his and you have yours.
Biff

 

[Say Again Over]

Thank god for cowboys! :beer:

 

[NewmanF16]

Sorry dude but go back and reread your first post and then come back and tell me who started a pissing contest or who called who's professionalism into question.

I apologize if it came across that way, the "cowboy" comment was borrowed from an earlier post referring to the kind of rules we have. I would never question your professionalism.

The funny thing about these exchanges about who is the best service / who has the best fighter--Against any other country we're all number one, and it's a very long way to everyone else.

Now lets all go have a shot of weed and play crud.

 

[rhinodriver]

Now that there are high fives all around, back to the original question....

I don't think the difference is in the training rules. The training rules are there for a reason and they are written in blood. I've done some work with the AF and the training rules have all been basically the same and are there for safety of flight.

I think the answer to what psyscx is asking about is that nebulous sort of mentality difference in which the services operate.

There are tradeoffs to almost anything. The AF does get more training bang for their buck because they don't have to train for the boat. However, by spending the money and time to train for the boat the Navy offers the CIC a force that has a moving runway that doesn't need basing rights or overfly rights from other countries. Sometimes that gets us to a fight first.

Anyway, the difference gap is narrowing as we operate in an increasingly joint world.

 

[psysicx]

Wow, this in pretty interesting. I know that there are not a lot of people who have flown in both services. But with the those two rules it there really any difference on what you do when your in the air?

 

[BiffF15]

Now that there are high fives all around, back to the original question....

I don't think the difference is in the training rules. The training rules are there for a reason and they are written in blood. I've done some work with the AF and the training rules have all been basically the same and are there for safety of flight.

I think the answer to what psyscx is asking about is that nebulous sort of mentality difference in which the services operate.

There are tradeoffs to almost anything. The AF does get more training bang for their buck because they don't have to train for the boat. However, by spending the money and time to train for the boat the Navy offers the CIC a force that has a moving runway that doesn't need basing rights or overfly rights from other countries. Sometimes that gets us to a fight first.

Anyway, the difference gap is narrowing as we operate in an increasingly joint world.

Rhino,
I was actually speaking to comments made by you and Newman (thread drift) that was basically how people form opinions and how things are viewed from one jet to another, or from one department of the DOD to another. Yes, the TR's are the same with some extras depending.
I'm not sure how long you got to fly the F18 but over time your views will change as well (about who busts TR's, who is good at what, how to handle the current Red Flag problem dujour, etc.)...
Yes having a large ship with planes on it is a good thing to have in the arsenal however realize over time that will change (due to technology). There are more cost effective ways to deliver ordinance on the horizon than a carrier. However, the ability to put a large warship off someone's coast might keep it around longer than expected.
Biff

 

[Occam's Razor]

Both branches have the same bell curve. The good ones are superb in both. The average ones are average in both. The awful ones are all in the Air Force.

(That was a joke...cease buzzer!)

Both have their strong aspects. Both have their annoying features too.

 

[Scrapdog]

Both have their annoying features too.

Like having Occam telling you at a bar for 30 minutes about the trials and tribulations of landing on the bo-at...yet when you ask him about the best tactic for a 4 v X DCA he can only respond with "uhhh...I'm not really sure about actual tactical execution...but did I tell you about this one time when I was landing on the bo-at and I couldn't wait to get to my hot bunk, yada, yada...." And rinse/repeat multiple times. :smash:

 

[Bjammin]

I was in a joint squadron with a B-52 guy, an A-10 demo pilot (later to be a Thunderbird), an F-15 guy, 2 EF-111 guys, and a B-1B chic.

All great people and all said they LOVED the way the Navy did business.

Being deployed to Turkey and Saudi with the AF and doing about 15 Red Flags I'm under the informed opinion that the AF does some things very well, as well.

To be specific: Flying fun, freedom, and rules I think the Navy does better. More trust in the decisions of the Aviatior in the jet and not so much reliance on the SOF or other guys on the ground. More flexable with changes when airborne.

Housing, Moral and Welfare department, treatment of it's people (especially enlisted), deployment times, and overall spitshine goes to the Air Force, but the Navy is getting better.

Each service has it's unique traditions, but I think the Air Force does a better job enforcing them.

For me the Navy worked out Awesome! Wouldn't change my experiences at the boat for nothin'.

Than's my opinion after 20+ years of service.