Additional UAL Pilot Furloughs today

[James007]

MEOW

 

[Boeingman]

FDJ:

You were mocking our payscale at CAL. ie. flout. So again you just proved me right again. Thank you. I only had the dictionary out to help your reply and interpretation.

PEX? Never changed, at least you finally admit that the UAL MEC acted childish in their manner of ditching of FAL. But somehow (like your speech is slurred) you are trying to spin the PEX/FAL into the tout issue. I don't know where your going with this. Don't drink and type.

Bitterness? I just think it is ironic how things change over the years. That glass house analogy you know. Maybe when you get some time under your belt you'll see what I'm talking about by looking back and seeing changes.

By god, I am even getting a compliment on our strike.

I never lecture you on forgiving scabs. I'm lecturing you on the absurdity of your comments towards pilots that don't fly for you. You seem to think everyone has to follow your agenda. I do not agree that it is in the best interest to alienate pilots that can undermine efforts at CAL or even DAL. Ever think of that? Keep pissing people off and they will try and screw ALPA again.

ALPA dropped the ball big time with the CAL strike. Opinions, rehotric on why so many former ALPA members crossed in 83?
I was told that over 65% of the scabs at CAL were former ALPA members. What is that telling you? What can we learn from that? To keep pissing people off? I prefer to educate and realign minds. So far on our property it's working fairly well. Your idea of extracting punishment is, well stupid. How do you punish people when ALPA was knocking at CAL's door?

Delta has never been tested. Again you ignore that, but I'll keep repeating it. Perhaps in a few years things may change. I see an entire army of highly trained RJ pilots getting shafted by ALPA in one way or another.

You know why no DAL guys will ever ride my JS? A few years ago I tried getting out of ATL (in uniform) and one of your DBA Captain's going to EWR took one look at my uniform and said "No scabs on my airplane". As I tried to explain my personal situation his back ass reply was "well you still fly for a scab airline" and walked away. Guess his blinders didn't see the ALPA pin. Perhaps my jaw dropping to the floor covered it?

I picture you the same way someday. Shoot your mouth off first, insert foot later. Hence my policy about DAL on my airplanes. You see, It works both ways about denials.

My kids aren't arrogant and you wouldn't last in this house with your attitude. Your household sure sounds bitter to me. I made the most of my time away from CAL. My kids could care less about the entire strike issue. I sheilded them from the grief and agony of 1983. The families I see that intertwined their children was in my opinion abusive.

Obviously, it has affected you to the point of anger over something that you are no part of. I know you like to tow the party line and sob story routine, but the EAL situation is a far cry from the CAL strike. Don't insult me any longer any try to call them the same.

Speaking of screen names, you never did answer my question of your moniker. Trying to impress the newer guys here you're an all mighty god fearing Delta Airlines Pilot? Maybe some little starry eyed girl CFI will want to e-mail you. Trolling for a internet relationship there FDJ? (see note on sarcasim).


I was going to post the entire thread you started on CF, but I don't know if that is kosher or legal copying those without consent. I invite all on here to go over there, look up your thread and let people see for themselves the a$$ you made of yourself as well as the scorching replies made by ex PAA guys who just don't see that same down home friendly airline called Delta.
You are totally blind to your own attitude that you just don't see it. I pity you.

Your initial post was not an innocent little question. It was a sarcastic barb which has the overall tone of an arrogant child.
The idea of CAL possibly buying Delta really doesn't set to well with you and you responded in kind. Why do you think people were all over you? I know, it is never your fault, you're a Delta pilot.

EAL, hey your own back yard. It was stupid to walk given Franks history. If no one left the cockpit they could of fought from the inside. Our guys tried telling the EAL MEC but they did not want to listen. Chalk up another kill for the IAM. They were totally out of control and I firmly believe the end result for EAL would of been the same even without Frank.

You didn't answer my final question. So am I to assume you are the CVG sec/treas?

 

[Zarathustra]

A Lorenzo fan?

A SCAB is a SCAB FOREVER. Do not be fooled by whomever this CAL ja may be, your actions will NOT be forgotten by rEAL pilots.

(Who have constantly been given preferential hiring since the SCABs have slowly been flushed out of UAL flight ops. with 6 billion of ESOP money)

Insinuations regarding seniority integrations are laughable. Ask your PAA lads the sweetheart deal they landed when they came with the Pacific routes over to UAL.

Boeingman, I do not envy your self-hatred, though I must admit that there is a part within me that would like to experience the insouciant calm that comes with such moronic imbecility.

FlyDeltaJets, I love that big neon sign and hope they keep it up in Hotlanta forever. A big thanks to you guys for staying united when Leo tried to pit all the employee groups against your pilot group and "park" the triple sevens.

Long live the Delta Dot!

 

[Boeingman]

A Lorenzo fan?

A SCAB is a SCAB FOREVER. Do not be fooled by whomever this CAL ja may be, your actions will NOT be forgotten by rEAL pilots.

(Who have constantly been given preferential hiring since the SCABs have slowly been flushed out of UAL flight ops. with 6 billion of ESOP money)

Insinuations regarding seniority integrations are laughable. Ask your PAA lads the sweetheart deal they landed when they came with the Pacific routes over to UAL.

Boeingman, I do not envy your self-hatred, though I must admit that there is a part within me that would like to experience the insouciant calm that comes with such moronic imbecility.

FlyDeltaJets, I love that big neon sign and hope they keep it up in Hotlanta forever. A big thanks to you guys for staying united when Leo tried to pit all the employee groups against your pilot group and "park" the triple sevens.

Long live the Delta Dot!

Hey douchebag. I am a full term CAL striker. You got a lot of nerve calling me a Lorenzo fan.

That calm comes from not giving a sh!t any longer because I don't have to. Morally or financially. You jealous of that? Self hatred? My life right now is perfect. From your rambling disjointed post I have to wonder what your psychosis is.

You work for UAL. Good luck, you're going to need every bit of it.

 

[TurboS7]

In the end a job is just a job and we are all just pawns in the big picture. There are a lot more important things in life to worry about. I'll stick with the CAL group I have always found them to be a great bunch of guys. If the world were like them it would be a better place. The CAL pilot group has learned to accept each other's diffrence's and carry on. I agree with Boeingman Delta has had it made and their day is coming. Time will tell, but strife builds character, and character an airline.

 

[EAP]

WTFO?

Boeingman and TurboS7, I see the glee in your posts about the troubles UAL has on their plate. Remember, the people getting hosed on layoffs are NOT the ones you picture in your head as the hated United guys of old, screwing FAL and other's that didn't fit their personal agenda. And, yes, I agree with you, FAL got hosed. I was in high school at the time and mourned the loss myself, believe me. The only guys feeling the pain are the poor bastards in thier 1st through 2nd year at this place (like me) and I can assure you anyone with more than a few years under their belt at UAL doesn't even know about this website. I've paid my dues, this is my second "major" and I've been through more indocs that my family or I care to remember.

You aren't going to solve problems or be victorious by saying "keep positive, where there's smoke there's fire" and starting your own glee club, cheering on at the fall of a company like the taliban watching CNN on 9/11. Your UAL boys who implemented a lot of your hard times are in CEO and VP heaven, playing golf somewhere at a club. The hated SOB UAL pilots that added to your hardshiup are on a retirement boat somewhere in the South Pacific. Me, I'm right here taking the brunt of your crap, out of work, looking for a job - and I never did anything to you in the first place.

The post is titled additional UAL pilot furloughs today, and it has turned into a hatred spewing contest. The majority of us, if CAL would have hired us first, would have probably been your friends flying trips with you. Instead, we meet you as gools spitting in our faces as we walk through a tough time. I'm holding my head high, and mabey, just mabey, I can avoid becoming a bitter old SOB some day and see people for who they are and not who they work for in an otherwise hard knock profession.

 

[TurboS7]

Easy there friend. I am from Chicago, do you know what that means. I have more UAL pilots that are friends and ex-UAL retired friends than you can imagine. I went out to coffee with all of them as they shared thier struggles as they knew the strike of '85 was coming. They shared their views and I shared mine. In the end they didn't go to work and the strike was settled in two weeks, Ferris gave in. I have a lot of respect for my UAL friends, I was just saying that I personally fit in better with the CAL guys vs. the United guys.I have many friends with both airlines. If UAL is in trouble it is a fact, it has nothing to do with anything personal. We live in troubled times all you guys have to realize that, if our President gave any indication last night the worse is a head of us. He all but declared war on Iraq, Iran, and N. Korea last night. Hang on as the ride is about to get a lot rougher.

 

[Boeingman]

QUOTE]Originally posted by EAP
WTFO?

Boeingman and TurboS7, I see the glee in your posts about the troubles UAL has on their plate. Remember, the people getting hosed on layoffs are NOT the ones you picture in your head as the hated United guys of old, screwing FAL and other's that didn't fit their personal agenda. And, yes, I agree with you, FAL got hosed. I was in high [/QUOTE]

EAP:

Thank you for the reasoned reply.

I did say somewhere basically the same thing you said about the new guys taking the brunt of the pain. I know it was lost in the massive amount of flames firing back and forth. But you are correct and I will reiterate.

Zara is in my mind the typical "Brain Surgeon" who doesn't even know who he is talking to (besides his lame attempt making a comprehensible post). I couldn't make heads or tails out of his ramblings. Perhaps when he lays off the water bong and comes back we can find out what his problem is.

For guys like you, (and even blowhards like Zara), I really do wish you the best of luck. The last thing this industry needs is for UAL or anyone else to enter chap. 11.

 

[Boeingman]

Turbo

I know we haven't seen eye to eye on some issues, but I appreciate the reply.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

You wrote, and I quote, (again!!!!) that I was "flouting" the Delta pay scales. Why would I insult my own pay scale? You used the word wrong. I called you on it. I didn't make a big deal of it, just a little joke. Yet you took it and ran with it. You were wrong. Admit it. You got mad because you felt (wrongly) that I was bragging about our pay. You tried to put me down for it. You used the word flout. Then you got your trusty dictionary out and said "you say tout, I say flout" indicating that they were the same thing. They are not. They are complete opposites. If you can't even admit that, then I don't know why I am bothering.

On the PEX, you did change. You insisted over and over again that the UAL guys hurt the FAL guy's bargaining power when PEX bought them. When I explained to you that your statement was impossible because PEX bought FAL before UAL ever made an offer (even supplying dates), and in fact UAL made an offer TO PEX to buy FAL, you changed your story to say that UAL made several offers for FAL. Not true. There was some discussion of a buy and leaseback plan with UAL, but that was only in the content of an ESOP at FAL. I believe your quote was "by UAL leading them around by the shorthairs until their cash position dwindled and they had no leverage when PEX bought them" You also said the "the ual offer came BEFORE burr and lorenzo. Once again, you were wrong. Admit it. For someone who brags so much about having been in the industry so long, you weren't paying much attention, were you?

By the way, as I already wrote, I complimented you on your strike way back in our second post. Yet you say you "finally" get a compliment on your strike. Is your victim complex that large that it affects your memory? I wrote, and will write again, that you guys were courageous. lorenzo, the courts, the politicions, and mostly the scabs beat you. I wish they hadn't. So does they rest of the industry. I feel for what you went through. You know as well as I do that if the scabs hadn't taken your job, you might have had a chance. Unlike you, I don't care why they crossed. I will not offer opinions on the mindset of a scab. Maybe ALPA screwed them. So what. They did not hurt ALPA, they hurt you. They stole the job that you earned. Don't give them an excuse. ALPA has wronged many people. We should address that. But not in the concept of excusing scabs.

By the way, I was 17 and interested in aviation during the EAL strike. I didn't need my father to explain it to me. I could read at the time (you should learn. It's helpful). My sisters knew nothing about the strike, because my father wasn't "abusive" and intertwine them in it. I, however, was very interested, almost an adult, and knowledgeable. I convinced my father to let me volunteer with him at the strike headquarters, and I learned a lot. Not because my father made me, but because i wanted to.

Your method is to placate scabs, mine is to ostracize them. I think my method is more in line with the attitude of most ALPA members. I think it is working. How many crossed during the NWA or CMR strike? Now don't get me wrong. I know that we must not alienate our members. If people have concerns, they should be addressed. Before any strike. But once they cross a line, there should be no forgiving. I certainly don't think they should be MEC members!

My screen name is copied from a neon sign in Atlanta. I like the sign and am proud of my airline. If I had used "I Fly Delta Jets" then perhaps you would have a point. Is "boeingman" an attempt to impress people? Oooohh, so you realllly fly boeings? See, it works both ways. By the way, I have a beautiful new bride and am happily married, so no, I am not using the internet to pick up chicks.

About my flyforums posts. #!. I asked, and I quote, "Where is CAL getting the cash to buy anything? I think they are more likely a buyee than a buyer." I felt then, and now, that your cash position and higly leveraged balance sheet would prevent you from buying anyone right now. Perhaps I am wrong. That's why I asked. You people came back and called me a DBA, etc. The insults came from your end first. I responded to them. Then tried to steer the conversation back towards civility. I even apologized for a line I used that upset people. I answered every post in a civilized and intelligent manner, and no one seemed to offer me the same courtesy. When I was called a "suicide terrorist" I announced i was leaving. And did. The fact that I stopped reading the thread did prevent me from responding to anything that followed my departure. Funny how that works, isn't it? That whole chronology thing really confuses you, doesn't it. Since we started this inane conversation I went back and re-read the wonderful post that you claimed I was scared of. Big deal. He wrote that DAL hired bad lawyers and did unethical things during the PAA deal. So what. That was Ron Allen. You will NEVER hear me defend him! What the hell did that have to do with the original conversation? I never said DAL was perfect, least of all the management. That was the big scary post that you claim scared me away because I was overmatched? Please. It is very rare that I am overmatched in a debate. I think this thread proves that! Thanks for your help, by the way.

Back to your jumpseat story. Am I a captain? No. Never claimed I was, and you probably knew I wasn't due to my age. Yet you seem to think that the actions of one A$$hole that denied you the jumpseat can be attributed to our entire pilot group. You accuse me of insulting the CAL pilots. In fact, I have never done that. I am polite and kind to every CAL pilot I see wearing an ALPA pin. They are ALWAYS welcome on our airplanes, and every captain I have ever flown with agrees. We have had many a cal pilot in our jumpseat, and they have all been gentleman. My words and actions refute your assertion that I insult the CAL pilots. I do insult the scabs, but ALWAYS go out of my way, like I have during this post, to compliment the rest of the CAL pilots. You, on the other hand, do exactly what you accuse me of doing. You have held the actions of one a$$hole against the entire group. You will not allow a DAL pilot a jumpseat (your words, not mine) because of one guy's action. You get offended when, in response to an insult, i pointed out the history of 1200 of the CAL pilots, yet you play jumpseat politics based on one guy? Wasn't our a$$hole doing exactly what you are? Yet you feel justified. Interesting.

Regarding the EAL strike. I agree that the IAM was out of control when Borman was Chairman. After lorenzo took over, however, they didn't have a chance to be out of control. lorenzo wanted them to strike. he was after the NMB at every opportunity to declare an impass. They would not for months, because he wouldn't even negotiate. He wanted to impose a contract and hire scabs, exactly like what happened at CAL. Meanwhile, he was stealing all of EAL's assets and transferring them. He was going to do the same thing to the pilots when their contract came up. He had done it at every airline he ever ran, and the pilots knew it. "Faught from the inside" with lorenzo? Are you kidding me? The pilots had two choices. Fight alongside the IAM, or fight alone later. There can be no doubt that lorenzo would try to bust their union when the contract was up. I don't see how the pilots had a choice. There had to be a strike, it was only a matter of when.

No, I'm not based in CVG.

You have a MASSIVE inferiority complex regarding Delta Air Lines. i can't count the amount of times you and your message board cronies accused me of having a big ego just because I work for Delta. Is Delta that good? I never said that, so you must infer it. You call me arrogant, and even ask if I am trying to impress people by putting the word "delta" in my screen name. You seem to have issues with Delta. Not sure why.

You mention that Delta has never been tested. You are correct that throughout Delta's history, the pilots have always been treated very well. That all changed with Ron Allen, and I am proud of the way DALPA has performed since then. They have paid 100% of the medical benefits through 2 furloughs, they stuck together during the 777 negotiations, even after Leo cancelled some orders. In doing so, the "Delta Dot" was created, which led the way to UAL's historic contract (no prob zara!). They stuck together during the c2k negotiations, even after management sued some of our members, and achieved the highest paying contract in the history of US aviation. Have we been tested with a strike? Not yet, but speaking as a strikecenter volunteer, we were ready. We have been tested. And we have responded. No need to thank us for establishing a payrate you can use in your bargaining. No need to thank us for the help the DALPA negotiating team has already given to your negotiating team. There is no need to thank us, but it would be nice.


In your haste to defend a group of scabs, you have managed to insult, alienate, and deny jumpseats to entire pilot groups, most of whose members you have never met. For some reason, the scabs sins have become forgivable, but the rest of ALPA's sins are not. I find it curious.

I have never insulted an entire pilot group intentionally, and when I did it inadvertantly, I apologized. You, on the other hand, insult the DAL and UAL pilots with every post. You are trying to play the victim, but people see through it. I have no doubt that you will come back, but I think perhaps before you type, a little self-study might be in order. You insulted entire ALPA groups, I insulted scabs while praising the rest of the pilots of the airline. Perhaps we were both wrong. If so, I think your's was the much greater sin. I am quite certain you'll disagree.