Acquisition or Merger?

[General Lee]

Dump the 717 leases? Absolutely not, as stated the lease returns would be costly, but..

Selling the planes with the leases intact would not be.

I'm not sure what Gary's vision is for the 717, but the options are wide open, just like the various angles to the SLI merger.

Correct, which was what I was implying to Fujubakkar.... But, if you want to sell them, I know a potential buyer.

And, the various angles to the SLI merger all lead to arbitration, and then it is rolling the dice, unless you want to act like USAIr East.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

GL,

I don't see an ATL fence due to our point to point operations. The 717s could go to TX/CA for two steppin. Can/will an arbitrator seat protect without a geographical fence? Within the current CBA, SWA CPs are not seat protected and can be downgraded by company choice...CPs cannot be bumped out of a pilot base by a more senior pilot unless there is vacancy bid to that base...

Pretty much the arbitrators could rule anything. They could state that Airtran brought in this many captain slots, and they will keep that many for a minimum of 10 years. It's up to them, not SWAPA. SWAPA can decide to not accept the binding arbitration ruling, which would cause the next civil war, one that GK wouldn't want.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General if this does happen, and I wouldn't mind seeing it happen, I would think that you would be very happy to give relative seniority to the AirTran pilots that would be coming with those 717s. So since the General has spoken it will happen. DAL will get the 717s and SWA will get 30+ gates in ATL.

Sounds fantastic, but I don't think any airline could handle all the 717s at once, so maybe 10 per year or 20 per year? How would that work for you? If SWA wanted to park the rest and wait it out, that could push senior Airtran guys on top of you junior guys, and could cause some job losses I guess. That doesn't sound good.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Shootr,

Don't get me wrong, like all pilots I am greedy and want to get as much out of this deal as I can, but it is up to the NC/Arb/GK not me....I am ready for an unfavorable outcome (relative seniority) if it happens, hopefully it will not and it will be some sort of DOH blend that acknowledges the size and CBA differences between the airlines and gives SWA pilots (especially those at the bottom of the list) a seniority bump. That seems fair to me. BUT IT IS NOT UP TO ME and I am ready for the "worst case" scenario. I may agree to a fence solution if the AAI pilots would operate under their CBA pay rates while operating within the fence...if they want to leave the fence they hold whatever seat their global seniority will allow them...that seems fair and the AAI pilots will assume some of the risk if the combined airline does not grow...I do not think relative seniority or seat protection is fair...but it is NOT UP TO ME.

Madjack figures it out! Good for you. Well done.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You and SWAPA have more power than you think. Don't settle when it comes down to a vote or letting your reps know what you'll accept.

Not really. If SWAPA does NOT give an offer to the Airtran guys that is acceptable (and they will vote), then it will go to arbitration, and then you will have NO power. It's binding, unless you go USAPA nuts.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The 717's are leased, and there would be big penalties to getting rid of them.

You don’t think SWA has a way out of those leases if needed?

I know an airline that would like some now. Not all at once probably, but a steady amount over a few years maybe? I wonder who it would be???


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

If Gary wanted to sell the 717's with the leases attached, it wouldn't be to a US carrier. He's learned from Delta's historic mistakes.

 

[ASADFW7]

Why would they get rid if the 717without a replacement?

 

[On Your Six]

If Gary wanted to sell the 717's with the leases attached, it wouldn't be to a US carrier. He's learned from Delta's historic mistakes.

Can you name an example of one that might want them? There are 25 more ex Mexicana Click planes sitting around with no takers. That seems like not enough to justify a new fleet type, but who out there could take 85 of them? Sounds like GK is going to go against his and Herb's cornerstone of success, a single fleet type. Getting more and more risky each day.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Why would they get rid if the 717without a replacement?

Redflyer is just tying to spread fear because he himself fears arbitration.


OYS

 

[madjack]

GL,

I am no GK and I don't think our head bean counter would do it BUT....if by "USAPA nuts" you mean keeping the operations separate to avoid a nasty culture clash, I wouldn't rule this out of the playbook here at good ole southwestern trailways...the good ole boyx/galz do seem to value the LUV...

Hey, GK could break out the checkbook and keep all the "adversely affected" players happy...this is my bet as to what will grease the skids to this whole thing...

 

[On Your Six]

GL,

I am no GK and I don't think our head bean counter would do it BUT....if by "USAPA nuts" you mean keeping the operations separate to avoid a nasty culture clash, I wouldn't rule this out of the playbook here at good ole southwestern trailways...the good ole boyx/galz do seem to value the LUV...

Hey, GK could break out the checkbook and keep all the "adversely affected" players happy...this is my bet as to what will grease the skids to this whole thing...

I think Lee is referring to how USAir East pilots didn't accept the binding arbitration results, and went nuts and created another union. It's a mess over there now, you know.


OYS

 

[iluvflying]

Redflyer-

Why would GK announce that SWA is keeping the 717's. They are growing to a 2 plane fleet soon to be 3 and turn around and do exactly the opposite to what he has put in writting, testified to and stated many times to the general public? He then would be called a liar, defrauded the American public and blah, blah, blah(whatever people can come up with). When if this was his plan all along he could save himself some negative press and not just say anything. There was nothing legally he was required to say to get this merger passed. Regardless if he says something or nothing about the 717's the merger would have been "a go" from DOJ. So again, my question why would he risk negative press, his character and respect if he did not have to?

 

[redflyer65]

Redflyer-

Why would GK announce that SWA is keeping the 717's. They are growing to a 2 plane fleet soon to be 3 and turn around and do exactly the opposite to what he has put in writting, testified to and stated many times to the general public? He then would be called a liar, defrauded the American public and blah, blah, blah(whatever people can come up with). When if this was his plan all along he could save himself some negative press and not just say anything. There was nothing legally he was required to say to get this merger passed. Regardless if he says something or nothing about the 717's the merger would have been "a go" from DOJ. So again, my question why would he risk negative press, his character and respect if he did not have to?

It's his show. I think he's actually been very quiet about his plans. I would say everything is on the table.

OYS,

I have ZERO fears of arbitration. The long list of gains on the AAI side is huge. Bring it on..

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

I love it how the MORONS from DAL (they know who they are!) come on here spewing about Arbitration... You know nothing about it, You guys took the money (Stock Options) and settled, You sold yourselves out. AAI/SWA will come to a negotiated settlement, They will vote on it. If 1 of the 2 groups decides they don't like it and wants to go to Arbitration, SO be it!

WE (the pilots of SWA and AAI) are tired of your opinion, stop going on every post and discussing what is none of your business!

Misery loves company, when it's all said and done, we are gonna kick your a$$!

{and before the biggest MORON of them all (you know who you are) mentions SLC, wake up, I've been there, their is nothing there!!!! That's why we "shrunk it", as you say...It's a Hub and Spoke operation for you, I'd be shocked if we still didn't pull more people out of there, AND if it were not for regional feed (NOTE: WE HAVE SCOPE, WE HAVE NO REGIONAL FEED... WE PAY NO ONE TO MOVE OUR PASSENGERS!), I'd guarantee we'd be pulling more people out of there.

So while you're in Africa or Timbuktu or WHERE EVER you go one leg out for 10 plus hours and one leg back, carrying maybe 300 passengers, I'm flying 3 or 4 legs a day carrying 25% more. (137 x 3 = 411) and if I do another leg (548), or another leg ETC. ETC. ETC., I can go on if you need help with the math. And if our A/C flies 12 hour days at 1.5 hour legs that's more than 1000 people a day, Yes, you may have higher yields BUT I have yet to see an A/C that could carry 1000 people!

SO while you guys have handed over domestic flying, we have gladly picked it up for 40 years, and we'll continue to do so!

KBB