ABX, DHL and Astar family tree

[QOL_is_great:)]

What will become of the ABX Air over the next few months? How does DHL ceasing ops effect ABX? Will Astar stop operating at the same time as DHL? How does one effect another? It's all as clear as mud right now.
I am writing a paper and trying to piece the whole ABX family tree together and I am missing pieces.
I did look on the ABX Air web site and it's history link, but had minimum results.
Good luck to the whole group there.
Thanks for the help.

 

[TWA]

There is more history (as well as some photos) on the public side of www.myabx.com

 

[Johnlp3]

History of DHL Airways and ASTAR

http://www.astarlabortalks.com/Video/video.htm

 

[aviatrix767]

Okay, since my other post was moved by the moderators (no problem there) I'm going to hijack this conversation to address a concern of one of the Astar pilots who left this message for me before it was deleted when my thread was moved.

(Of course if you think about it, this is kinda relative to the subject title... <g>)

Mr. DC8Criver writes:

********************************************

Soooo,

Trixxie rears her ignorant head again after all these months.

Yep. We're still waiting for an apology for your slander Trix.

You know, the professional airline pilot has to undergo so many recurrent classes covering such a wide variety of subjects these days that maybe you have forgotten your most recent CRM (or TRM or whatever ABX calls their "charm school") training. Too bad, really. Those classes provide what amounts to the foundation of what a real professional pilot builds their career upon. Communication, honesty, self evaluation, respect, integrity, decision making, leadership, and factual knowledge are but a few of the earmarks of a true professional pilot.

Your actions and words on all of these professional pilot boards show none of these traits.

Face it. You either made a very slanderous remark on purpose and continue to defend it, or you made a mistake and won't admit it. Either way you were wrong, Trix.

If you are truly a professional pilot, you should be able to recognize the facts at this point and admit an error in judgement or admit a mistake.

If you can't do either one of these basic and fundamentally critical admissions, you have no business posting on a professional pilot message board - or for that matter - ever setting foot in the cockpit of an airplane.

8
********************************************

My dearest Mr. DC8CRIVER (and I'll include Mr. Hvy in this one, too),

I'm going to give you two something else to b*t*h about now....You know, since you two can't seem to let go of the other topic of conversation, let's see how you respond to THIS one:

Let's "discuss" a certain conversation between Astar managment, Alpo (err, I mean Alpa) and DHL regarding keeping the flying with Astar only. Remember that conversation? Either one of you? Especially you, Hvy.... No? I'm guessing neither of you will own up to it - not surprised there, heh. I'm talking about a certain message board conversation on this board, and certain posts made by "FODC8" that were removed from this very board.

Does any of this ring a bell? Hmm??

Well, allow me to refresh your memory. Astar, et al, was trying to work out a little back-door deal for secured flying - of course at the expense of the ABX Air pilot group (talk about not playing nice now - shame, shame!). One of your own (FODC8) even ACKNOWLEDGED this on the message board. Hmmm, it seems that this caused some major "poo" to hit the fan on a certain Astar web board, and "poof" those messages posted by "FODC8" magically disappeared from the FI board.

Explanations for this one?? Please enlighten us.

Oh yeah, about that "charm school" - obviously you seem to be a bit confused - when I'm posting on this message board, I'm not IN the cockpit. But, hey, since my charm is of such great concern to you, please know that I am able to turn on the ol' Trixie charm when needed and/or necessary, so no need to worry about me... 'k? <bg> And while we're talking about "charm school" (and fwiw, it's CRM at ABX) I think your griping to me about MY lack of charm is equivalent to the pot calling the kettle black. So, get off your friggin' high horse.

Well, I'm outta here... And guess what? NO FRIGGIN' APOLOGY!!!! HA!!!

Heh, I'll close with this thought (image).... I'm sitting here picturing a few certain Astar crews sitting around the crew room, all the lights are out, crickets are chirping - everybody has already left the place 'cause DHL has already shut down the place... But there those few sit... waiting for my apology. <sigh> Hey, could someone that lives in or near ILN go by and dust the cobwebs off those dudes every now and then? Thanks!

(Oh, and DC8, I'm still laughing at YOU, of all people, telling me that I have no business posting on a "professional" message board. I'll tell ya what, why don't you, Hvy and me meet somewhere in the 'Boro for a brewski and talk about it in person rather than on a message board. But beware, I can be even more charming in person. <eg>)

 

[hvydriver]

>Let's "discuss" a certain conversation between Astar managment, Alpo (err, I mean Alpa) and DHL regarding keeping the flying with Astar only. Remember that conversation? Either one of you? Especially you, Hvy.... No? I'm guessing neither of you will own up to it - not surprised there, heh. I'm talking about a certain message board conversation on this board, and certain posts made by "FODC8" that were removed from this very board.<

Why wouldn't anyone own up to a conversation that occured on this board, Trixie? Astar, as well as ABX as businesses have both attempted (and probably still are as we speak should the UPS deal fail to materialize) to get DHL to go with their airline only. That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is your inability to acknowledge an error. And as usual instead of owning up to it and gaining some respect back, you have a hissy fit and try to change the topic of conversation to something that was beaten to death long ago. Pitiful. You don't think you did anything wrong. Circle U on judgement then.

 

[mxer]

Talk about how they wouldn't let it go? I was with you, on the last attack coming back after all this time, right up untill you highjacked this thread to get in the last word. I hope this garbage doesn't get put into the OP's research.

 

[AV8OR]

Y'all....really.....don't waste your time on Trixie. Split personality. Seriously. He11, she doesn't know if she's goin or comin. Just wish her the best and move on. She's the minority at 1224.

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Bad Form Trix

Bad form all around Trix. As I've said before, it's unfortunate that your actions ( and continued inactions ) have stained your entire group.
I would hope that your decision making process is better in the cockpit where ones actions and decisions could mean the ultimate difference.

It takes courage to admit to ones mistakes. It should distress all that share a cockpit with you that this is a quality that is found lacking in you.

FAJ

 

[hvydriver]

Y'all....really.....don't waste your time on Trixie. Split personality. Seriously. He11, she doesn't know if she's goin or comin. Just wish her the best and move on. She's the minority at 1224.

True AV8OR... true.

 

[aviatrix767]

Thanks for the laugh guys.... You have put a big smile on my face this morning. LOL

 

[aviatrix767]

Oooops, I forgot something else....

NO FRIGGIN' APOLOGY!!!

No need for one... You got caught with your pants down - I called you on it. And now all of you are embarrassed to the point of being fixated on getting an "apology" from me, when, in fact, you guys should be the ones apologizing to the folks at ABX Air. <shakinghead> You people are truly pathetic....

 

[hvydriver]

Oooops, I forgot something else....

NO FRIGGIN' APOLOGY!!!

No need for one... You got caught with your pants down - I called you on it. And now all of you are embarrassed to the point of being fixated on getting an "apology" from me, when, in fact, you guys should be the ones apologizing to the folks at ABX Air. <shakinghead> You people are truly pathetic....

LOL. No, not hardly. I wasn't going to put this out, but I was told it is ok. Sorry the little ALPA globe didn't come out. I had to convert it from .pdf to a word doc. It's going to be sloppy. Ross has got the original I'm sure, though.


PRESIDENT'S DEPARTMENT
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL



1625 MASSACHUSETTS AVENUE, NW ❑ WASHINGTON, DC 20036

April 25, 2008


Captain David Ross, President
Airline Professional Association
Teamsters Local 1224
2754 Old State Route 73
Wilmington, OH 45177

Dear Dave:

❑ 1-888-FLY-ALPA (1-888-359-2572)
FAX 202-797-4007




I received your email dated April 22, 2008 regarding Astar and Boeing 767.
It is my understanding that the management at Astar has asked for certain relief on pay rates in order to bid on 767 international flying. It is also my understanding that not only has no such agreement been made, but also that neither Captain Walsh nor his fellow MEC members have recommended this or even put the matter to a vote.
Obviously, I will review any bargaining agreement to assure it is consistent with ALPA policy and
advances the goals and careers for our members and our profession before I execute. Under the
ALPA Constitution and Bylaws we preserve the right of our Master Executive Councils to determine
bargaining objectives for their individual circumstances, but through our National Bargaining
Committee work across all 41 ALPA airlines to improve pilot contracts in a cooperative and unified
mutual support.

On the other hand, before asking me to intervene on this issue, it may be more helpful to check with Captain Walsh, the Astar ALPA MEC Chairman as to the status of this matter.

As you are fully aware, many airlines in all segments of our industry are in a transition stage with
pilots always in the crosshairs. Only with unprecedented levels of Union solidarity among pilots
will we be able to stand up to managers and owners intent on destroying the benefits and jobs of our
professional members. They would prefer that pilots fight with each other for leftover scraps while
they manipulate corporations to their own benefit. If we succumb to their tactics, all of our members
will lose. As Union leaders we must not permit them to breach our collective solidarity for short
term parochial gains.
I remain in close contact with Captain Walsh and will look forward to his briefing on this matter.
In solidarity,


John H. Prater, President

cc: P. Walsh, ASTAR MEC CHR
R.. Helling, ALPA Executive Administrator



SCHEDULE WITH SAFETY ® •• AFFILIATED WITH AFL-CIO

 

[§kyye Candy]

So, in summary... to answer your original question QOL, the DHL family tree is inbred and in need of pruning... pruning out the stalkers, that is!

Best of luck to all of the DHL contract survivors - we are going to need it.

 

[aviatrix767]

LOL... Skyye!!! ^^^5s!!!

 

[aviatrix767]

LOL. No, not hardly. I wasn't going to put this out, but I was told it is ok. Sorry the little ALPA globe didn't come out. I had to convert it from .pdf to a word doc. It's going to be sloppy. Ross has got the original I'm sure, though.


PRESIDENT'S DEPARTMENT
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL



1625 MASSACHUSETTS AVENUE, NW ❑ WASHINGTON, DC 20036

April 25, 2008


Captain David Ross, President
Airline Professional Association
Teamsters Local 1224
2754 Old State Route 73
Wilmington, OH 45177

Dear Dave:

❑ 1-888-FLY-ALPA (1-888-359-2572)
FAX 202-797-4007




I received your email dated April 22, 2008 regarding Astar and Boeing 767.
It is my understanding that the management at Astar has asked for certain relief on pay rates in order to bid on 767 international flying. It is also my understanding that not only has no such agreement been made, but also that neither Captain Walsh nor his fellow MEC members have recommended this or even put the matter to a vote.
Obviously, I will review any bargaining agreement to assure it is consistent with ALPA policy and
advances the goals and careers for our members and our profession before I execute. Under the
ALPA Constitution and Bylaws we preserve the right of our Master Executive Councils to determine
bargaining objectives for their individual circumstances, but through our National Bargaining
Committee work across all 41 ALPA airlines to improve pilot contracts in a cooperative and unified
mutual support.

On the other hand, before asking me to intervene on this issue, it may be more helpful to check with Captain Walsh, the Astar ALPA MEC Chairman as to the status of this matter.

As you are fully aware, many airlines in all segments of our industry are in a transition stage with
pilots always in the crosshairs. Only with unprecedented levels of Union solidarity among pilots
will we be able to stand up to managers and owners intent on destroying the benefits and jobs of our
professional members. They would prefer that pilots fight with each other for leftover scraps while
they manipulate corporations to their own benefit. If we succumb to their tactics, all of our members
will lose. As Union leaders we must not permit them to breach our collective solidarity for short
term parochial gains.
I remain in close contact with Captain Walsh and will look forward to his briefing on this matter.
In solidarity,


John H. Prater, President

cc: P. Walsh, ASTAR MEC CHR
R.. Helling, ALPA Executive Administrator



SCHEDULE WITH SAFETY ® •• AFFILIATED WITH AFL-CIO

Yes, now tell everyone WHEN this was put out.... Yeah, I know the date is on the letter, but this was issued AFTER I received certain information and "outed" the plan. This is nothing more than a "save face" letter. Nice try, though.

 

[§kyye Candy]

By the way, DC8CRIVER - you are in the wrong place if you are looking for a PROFESSIONAL environment to post! Take a look around. Besides, another critical aspect of integrity is knowing when to fold.

 

[aviatrix767]

By the way, DC8CRIVER - you are in the wrong place if you are looking for a PROFESSIONAL environment to post! Take a look around. Besides, another critical aspect of integrity is knowing when to fold.

Skyye, you're going to have to define the word "integrity" for these bozos. <shakinghead> (That's what happens when ol' gene pool becomes clouded... LOL)

 

[hvydriver]

Yes, now tell everyone WHEN this was put out.... Yeah, I know the date is on the letter, but this was issued AFTER I received certain information and "outed" the plan. This is nothing more than a "save face" letter. Nice try, though.

I see you can't comprehend. Let me help you. You posted based on a rumor. Just like playing telephone. The Pres. of the 1224 then instead of contacting 017's Chair, complained to the President of ALPA National. He responded back that the company had approached us about reduced rates, and we nixed it. He also suggested that perhaps next time he consider contacting 017 directly about things. This was sent 3 days after your little diatribe. Your take on things is utterly amazing. What's even more fascinating is that you are a lone gun on this.

 

[aviatrix767]

I see you can't comprehend. Let me help you. You posted based on a rumor. Just like playing telephone. The Pres. of the 1224 then instead of contacting 017's Chair, complained to the President of ALPA National. He responded back that the company had approached us about reduced rates, and we nixed it. He also suggested that perhaps next time he consider contacting 017 directly about things. This was sent 3 days after your little diatribe. Your take on things is utterly amazing. What's even more fascinating is that you are a lone gun on this.

Spin your crap any way you want... The fact remains that I am NOT going to apologize, because I did nothing wrong. Get over it. Go find something else to gripe about.

Don't get too excited.. I'm not leaving this board. But I will not acknowledge anymore of your posts. I will be ignoring you. And if you don't like what I have to say, I'd suggest you do the same. It's that simple. Or at least in theory it should be. Maybe I need to draw you a picture to help you understand that, too?????

 

[hvydriver]

Spin your crap any way you want... The fact remains that I am NOT going to apologize, because I did nothing wrong. Get over it. Go find something else to gripe about.

Don't get too excited.. I'm not leaving this board. But I will not acknowledge anymore of your posts. I will be ignoring you. And if you don't like what I have to say, I'd suggest you do the same. It's that simple. Or at least in theory it should be. Maybe I need to draw you a picture to help you understand that, too?????

Hey, I'm not leaving it either. Awesome, isn't it?