Aborting a T/O

[WMUSIGPI]

At Mesaba on the jets it is the capatain guarding the thrust and performing the abort. On the Saab it was whoever PF was did the abort though I believe they were changing that to be the captain only like the jets. Works fine for the jet because with the CRJ9 with the fadec detents the power is set before airspeed is even alive, not sure if it's quite as smooth for the CRJ2. The Saab would be a bit more of a cluster.

 

[skyward80]

USAF procedures has the Aircraft Commander announce the decision to abort, the Pilot Flying will then execute the procedures for the abort.

IMHO, this is a good way to run things. I'm not sure if everybody has the Abort Decision written out in their Tech Orders, but ours breaks it down into time required to make the decision, average reaction time, etc. It's just a matter of seconds as we all know. I think transferring control during an abort wastes time. Maybe on most days, you can get away with this but imagine a heavy weight take off on a contaminated runway.

If you can't trust the guy in the seat next to you to execute an abort IAW Tech Orders the moment the Aircraft Commander announces his decision, he shouldn't be sitting there.

Just my .02. I don't claim to be an expert on the matter.

Skyward80

 

[WSurf]

If you can't trust the guy in the seat next to you to execute an abort IAW Tech Orders the moment the Aircraft Commander announces his decision, he shouldn't be sitting there.

Just my .02. I don't claim to be an expert on the matter.

Skyward80

I don't think its a matter of trust, but more of how some people handle stressful situations. You could have a guy that knows the plane inside out, knows company's policy and prodecures inside out. You might fly with him thinking he is one of the best pilots in the world.

Then all the sudden the ******************** hits the fan, and that guy you thought was Chuck Yeager goes into a shell and is wothless.

Everyone reacts to stress differently. I trust everyone I fly with, but I never know how that guy will act in a stressful situation.

 

[aa73]

Then we go to AA procedures; still only CA's abort, however for some reason F/O's initially set T/O power and then CA hand is on throttles. A useless and time wasting "musical chairs" of hands and throttles.

At most other airlines on the F/O's leg, F/Os usually set the power, with the CA assuming control of the throttles once power is set. In this case TWA was the one who did it differently from everyone else.

 

[Golden Falcon]

thought jets had thrust levers...

 

[hammer2]

Wouldn't you want to trust the crewmember next to you? Both have gone through the same training in the same a/c. It would seem an abort call wouldn't be made in vain, just a safety of flight issue.
Most of us would consider doing paper work and, letting the brakes cool down good airmanship, or would it be better to become one of those famous disasters they make movies about?

 

[PCL_128]

Wouldn't you want to trust the crewmember next to you? Both have gone through the same training in the same a/c. It would seem an abort call wouldn't be made in vain, just a safety of flight issue.
Most of us would consider doing paper work and, letting the brakes cool down good airmanship, or would it be better to become one of those famous disasters they make movies about?

High speed aborts are dangerous. It's not just as simple as waiting for the brakes to cool and filling out a report. In many cases, the abort is far more dangerous than simply continuing the takeoff with the malfunction. An abort isn't something to be taken lightly.

 

[firstthird]

High speed aborts are dangerous. It's not just as simple as waiting for the brakes to cool and filling out a report. In many cases, the abort is far more dangerous than simply continuing the takeoff with the malfunction. An abort isn't something to be taken lightly.

exactly. which is why it is important for your operating manual to spell out what is and is not a cause for a high speed abort.

an abort past 80 knots (100 for some planes/operators) is not something to be taken lightly. and it is also not something to have a discussion about at the time, thus the need for a clear takeoff brief.

about the Captain vs. FO, I suspect that most companies have the same rule about the captain does a single engine landing (for a 2 engine plane). the captain guarding the thrust levers and doing the abort falls into this category. not to mention only the captain has a tiller (nose wheel steering beyond the rudder authority) in a 737.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

It seems there's at least two schools of thought:

1. Time Is of the Essence - PF has the T/Ls (go sticks, throttles) and has "abort authority."

2. Experience Rules - CA has the T/Ls, and abort authority.

I have a feeling the if we went through the NTSB files, each airline follows the lesson learned from their most recent accident/incident.

At Airline ABC, a Captain continued and tried to take off when an abort was call for (as quarterbacked by us on Monday morning), so FOs can call aborts.

At XYZ Air, an FO aborted because his Ipod battery died right at the good part of Darkside of the Moon, so now only CAs can call for aborts.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Just a question. At CAL we use the term "Reject" instead of "Abort" at my previous airline. I still have the hardest time saying "Reject". What other airlines use "Reject" instead of "Abort"?