AA's new B scale

[AceOnTheRiver]

The only thing that's clear about this whole situation is that there'll be more arbitrations, lawsuits, etc, to iron this thing out. Best of luck.

stlflyguy

True, I am sure the flowthroughs are going to sue for their TOS for pay and benefits since it was given to NEW HIRE TWA pilots.

 

[Neubyfly]

Eagle had 127 pilots flow through (give or take), AA had over 4X that many flow back to the left seat. Not sure where Eagle got the best out of that deal. .

There are 564, or so, flowthroughs who have numbers that will flow. That's 127 plus 564 equals 691. Compare that to the 280 or so Flowbacks that actually flew the line at Eagle and I'd say it was pretty fair. Except for the fact that flowback rights only lasted, at most, 5 years and expired with letter 3 while flowthrough rights last forever and many will have 20 year careers at AA. And let's not forget Eagle STILL has the rights to fly the jets while the APA has no protections anymore.

 

[Neubyfly]

There were just over 400 flying as captain at one time.

Not even close. There were only 313 that took advantage of the flowback. Many of those went straight to MLOA.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

There are 564, or so, flowthroughs who have numbers that will flow. That's 127 plus 564 equals 691. Compare that to the 280 or so Flowbacks that actually flew the line at Eagle and I'd say it was pretty fair. Except for the fact that flowback rights only lasted, at most, 5 years and expired with letter 3 while flowthrough rights last forever and many will have 20 year careers at AA. And let's not forget Eagle STILL has the rights to fly the jets while the APA has no protections anymore.

Eagle should have had around 1500 numbers.
Eagle got 691 total with 127 over the fence.
Flowbacks to Eagle around 400.
TWA had a high number percentage of flowback positions yet it took an arbitration for Eagle to get any numbers form them. I believe we got a total of 154 numbers from TWA addition.
Of course this is all water under the bridge now. We have to look forward to remedy and the future. I have been hearing they might do a double staple to create a master list. It would probably be better just to merge the lists, but I think APA is running scared of lawsuits after Congress changed the merger laws.

 

[thor2j]

There are 564, or so, flowthroughs who have numbers that will flow. That's 127 plus 564 equals 691. Compare that to the 280 or so Flowbacks that actually flew the line at Eagle and I'd say it was pretty fair. Except for the fact that flowback rights only lasted, at most, 5 years and expired with letter 3 while flowthrough rights last forever and many will have 20 year careers at AA. And let's not forget Eagle STILL has the rights to fly the jets while the APA has no protections anymore.

You need to check your numbers, not even close. When it was signed, AA mngmt said that they were not going to hire for "atleast" 18 months and most likely it would be 2 years. Guess, what, they started hiring with in a couple of months. If it had worked as advertised by AA mngmt every AE pilot would of flowed in 5 years. AA Mngmt scammed the thing the whole time. They knew when they would hire and flat out lied in person to many.(which now happens all the time).

Flowthrough was in effect for ten years, not five. Also, there jobs did not expire with letter 3, only there right to hold captain, they still had jobs at AE.

 

[Neubyfly]

You need to check your numbers, not even close. When it was signed, AA mngmt said that they were not going to hire for "atleast" 18 months and most likely it would be 2 years. Guess, what, they started hiring with in a couple of months. If it had worked as advertised by AA mngmt every AE pilot would of flowed in 5 years. AA Mngmt scammed the thing the whole time. They knew when they would hire and flat out lied in person to many.(which now happens all the time).

Flowthrough was in effect for ten years, not five. Also, there jobs did not expire with letter 3, only there right to hold captain, they still had jobs at AE.

My numbers are accurate.

 

[Vastly Underemp]

An item that seems to have escaped mention:

When the flowbacks began, Eagle ALPA started to scream bloody murder and successfully prevented any formerTWA flowbacks for approximately 9 months. Nearly 800 American Airlines (that's what my paycheck said, that's what the release said, and that's what was on the tickets that my passengers bought) pilots were denied their contractual rights to exercise the flowback provisions. APA didn't care because it was all former TWA-ers, and only pursued remedy when it started to affect the natives.

In my humble opinion, you either honor all provisions of the flow agreement or the whole thing is null and void.

VU

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

I don't think they ever contemplated what would happen if they bought another airline or if they actually furloughed. Hell, they couldn't even get straight when they were going to hire. It's safe to say that there will never be another Letter 3 in AMR's history.

 

[Neubyfly]

True, they were on the APA seniority list even though they operated under the TWA certificate- similar to Eagle CAs operating under the Eagle certificate while on the APA seniority list.

.

Actually, more like Eagle and Executive.

 

[XTW]

True, they were on the APA seniority list even though they operated under the TWA certificate- similar to Eagle CAs operating under the Eagle certificate while on the APA seniority list.

Keep in mind that AA/TWA were deemed "single carrier" and operated under the same contract. I don't think that compares to the AA/Eagle relationship at all.