AAI/SWA solution

[On Your Six]

I didn't say all of you...but if what your FAB-7 did was not militant then I don't know what is. Keeping the SL-9 and it's details to themselves and not letting the rank and file vote for themselves is as militant as you can possibly get. Just out of respect for your NC, send it to a vote. Shoot you can even not recommend it and still send it for a vote.

Telling Gary that you won't allow postponing arbitration for 6 months is as militant as you can get. SWA MGMNT wants to settle this without arbitration and ALPA isn't letting him, how is that not militant? Knowing that an agreement outside of arbitration will do tons for this "culture", especially since we might have to put up with eachother later...and not allowing that...that's militant. So in the end SWA MGMNT might get fed up and become ATN MGMNT all over again...difference is now there are 6000 pilots that are not on your side. Forano did not have that luxury.

They are following the Process Agreement signed by all parties.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[ASADFW7]

The AAI/SWA solution that is option 2. Separate operations the AAI group keeps what they have. No windfall, no loss, nothing gained, how does that sound?

 

[737lj]

The AAI/SWA solution that is option 2. Separate operations the AAI group keeps what they have. No windfall, no loss, nothing gained, how does that sound?

I can live with that.

 

[MCDU]

The AAI/SWA solution that is option 2. Separate operations the AAI group keeps what they have. No windfall, no loss, nothing gained, how does that sound?

That is the same solution that would work for USAIR East pilots.

M

 

[redflyer65]

As an outsider I was just wondering how the other groups are doing integrating (FA's, Reservations, etc...)

Not well.

 

[Andy]

How would a SWA guy feel if us AAI guys get relative seniority but we keep our payscale and benefits? You guys keep throwing around how much money we will make but what if this was the case. We get to keep our seniority and there is no huge windfall that you all keep talking about.

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, just wanted to get some feedback. Seems like SWA guys only talk about how much money we will make and we talk about our seniority.

So how bout we keep our seniority and we don't get a pay raise?

Keep it nice!

Whipsaw. A split payscale wouldn't be good for either pre-integration SWA or AAI pilots.
This is a nonstarter on many levels. Please allow your 'dark side' to rise from within and you will quickly be able to envision different ways that management could manipulate split payscales. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW6opMZg6wQ

I could go into detail but check out CAL/UAL. Currently flying is being shifted to the CAL side of the house because it's cheaper. Note that CAL pilots have lower pay and worse work rules than UAL pilots.

PURE BS. Seniority is forever. As long as your company stays flying, the guy behind you in seniority will stay there.

My seniority at UAL is June 2000. It hasn't worked out too well for me - between 9/11 and age 65, my seniority has only bought me a line in the unemployment line BEHIND the guy below me.

Dropping trips while on reserve is a rarity, according to your reserve pilots. I can re-post dozens of posts where SWA pilots are complaining about not being able to drop trips on reserve . . . how no one wants their scraps, except during the leanest months, etc.

This integration will make SWA so overmanned that trip drops will be encouraged for several years to come. I would also expect liberal leaves of absence to be available.

Hang on, pvt. Lee is in the process of switching over to On Your Six.

I've been around this forum for a very long time. Gen Lee and OYS are NOT the same person. Go back in their posting history and you'll see that they are two different people.

You dont get it.

At the bottom of the list, we would be double-commuting to a reserve line. No flexibility.

I've done double commutes. They suck azz.
Where do you live that you'll have to double commute?
I'm in Tucson. If I'm able to get a CAL slot in EWR, I plan on driving to PHX just to avoid a double commute. That's 100+ miles each way but better than having to connect.

Problem is your airline is reducing it's schedule. How do we handle the reduction in block hours from your side? How do we handle WN's growing presence in ATL?

The biggest problem of all is Gary wants the synergies that he paid for when he bought you. You have to SAVE him money, not just not cost him money.

Gup

The AAI drawdown is due to SWA buying them, not in spite of being bought. Huge difference.
And SWA bought AAI to have ATL gates/slots. Those are expensive gates and slots. Want to see some really expensive slots? Read this: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article3480029.ece

They are following the Process Agreement signed by all parties.


Godspeed!


OYS

How do you know either side's following the agreement? Have you read it? If you've got a copy of it, PM me because I'd like to read it and weigh in independently.

The AAI/SWA solution that is option 2. Separate operations the AAI group keeps what they have. No windfall, no loss, nothing gained, how does that sound?

That's a fail on multiple levels. Look ahead a few chess moves and see what kind of Pandora's Box you would open with that kind of 'resolution'.

 

[Roomwithaview]

You dont get it.

At the bottom of the list, we would be double-commuting to a reserve line. No flexibility.

Ty (and others) and what you don't seem to get is that your airline was sold. So, everything was sold, your planes, your lines, your gates, your jobs and yes, your seniority.

Those are the cold hard facts of life. Your contract and labor laws are in effect to prevent a total hose job but they are not there to give you some sort of monumental super system seniority at the carrier that acquired you. For some reason, you think so, although I think you are probably smarter than that and are just trying to stay on ALPA talking points.

And that's all it is Ty, talk. Because when it's all said and done there may be an arbitrator ruling and it may be more favorable than your LOA or Kelly may chop the whole thing up and sell it for parts. Both are two very viable possibilities.

Keep singing from that same sheet of music. So far you've turned down about 3 billion dollars from a guy that doesn't toss money around like that. You gave up the two things he needed from you. Speed and cooperation. He knows where to go if he wants cooperation to help the airline make money. Isn't that what you all are always make fun of us for? Because we're such company koolies? Well, I guess we're going to get a chance to see how well it pays off. Not just for us but for the company we had an integral part in making the most successful airline in the world.

 

[Roomwithaview]

EasyDoesIt

You guys aren't even talking about my original post. Nevermind. This board is a waste of time.

I envision your idea as a slippery slope and one SWAPA (per our contract and SL's) want to prevent at all costs. However, since it now looks like the company is not going to be able to obtain their oh so sought after synergies when they wanted to then they may very well come to the union and ask for some sort of relief to our CBA to allow for an alter ego carrier/Regional to operate.

I would expect we might be amenable to that provided it is a temporary deal, benefits SWAPA pilots in the long run and doesn't destroy (long term) the protections we put in our Section One.

So long story short I'm certain it's being discussed.

 

[ASADFW7]

Separate operations is not a long term solution, but it does expose what SWA pilots see. The AAI group wants our contract, and their working environment is going to change with an integration into a bigger company. SWA did this, not SWAPA. The AAI preference is to insulate themselves from the affects of working for a bigger company. SWAPA pilots are already operating in the expanded environment. Commuting across country is something we already have to experience, yet AAI pilots see this basic principle of working for SWA as something that is too large of a change for them. Well the basic environment of flying for a bigger country is that the distance in geographical decisions is greater when bidding and holding a position. No matter what SWA does, the pilot group of AAI is opened up to increased variables for decision making. This fact of life will not change unless the AAI group is fenced out of SWA so they do not have to make those decisions, or exercise new options.

The arguments that the change for AAI is too great is small mans math. The algorithms of this deal including labor are not short sighted, but the thinking of the AAI group mirrors simple math. There is no escaping the integration from a lessor position and the affects of working for a larger employer. Accepting this and making this work for the AAI group takes vision, to date we have not seen a lot of that thinking from the AAI side yet.

Show me where the AAI pilot group has embraced the opportunities of working for a larger company and network. When this happens a better integration solution can be created. Right now it is bad math from both sides.

 

[Skyboy722]

SL9 did not provide that for the AT folks. We were stuck for up to 30 months AFTER SOC with our same contract. NO 6 tfp each day. Reserve would only pay a 75-78 hour guarantee. Commute in for a 5 day stretch and get used for two resulting in 8 hours towards guarantee. Time away from home with no compensation. No improvement in work rules. Flipping of circadium rythms.... bid ams and then get switched to a CDO. Loss of retirement for 3 months. Pay did not become effective until 1 April. Promise of reserve for 10+ years. These are just some of the glaring issues with SL9.

Isn't this what you are bringing to this so called "merger"? So your contract that you bring to this deal is a "glaring issue with SL9"?

Feeling a little entitled?