AAI offer extended (again)

[wood pecker]

My buddy who just completed AAI recurrent said that during the union speech,that there is even an idea floating to hire low time @200hour pilots from Embry Riddle.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

My buddy who just completed AAI recurrent said that during the union speech,that there is even an idea floating to hire low time @200hour pilots from Embry Riddle.

Yes, they are talking about it. It gives them permanent FOs that cant go anywhere.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

You guys are so sensitive. What I'm saying is in the 80s and early 90s guys who got hired at a legacy would sit in the right seat for 8 or 9 years before they could upgrade. Now guys want to show up on property at a very young airline and expect a Southwest style contract. And if they don't have it they are looking for another airline to go to within 6 months. We all need to keep working for better things. The company needs an east west flow, the union needs a better contract, yada yada yada. It will all come in time.

In case you haven't been keeping up with current events, it hasn't been the early 90s for like 30 years or something. Again, how long were you here before having the opportunity to upgrade?

 

[rtmcfi]

You guys are so sensitive. What I'm saying is in the 80s and early 90s guys who got hired at a legacy would sit in the right seat for 8 or 9 years before they could upgrade..

And how far did legacy FO wages go in the 80's and 90's? I am willing to bet a good bit farther than AAI FO wages currently do...........

 

[Lear70]

You guys are so sensitive. What I'm saying is in the 80s and early 90s guys who got hired at a legacy would sit in the right seat for 8 or 9 years before they could upgrade.

In the 80's and early 90's, Legacy F/O's were making $30k 1st year, but then $75-80k 2nd year, $85-90k 3rd year, and could hit 6 figures by year 4 or 5 at many places (not including per diem).

If our pay rates paid that AT GUARANTEE, people might not be so anxious to upgrade and would enjoy the lifestyle of a senior F/O a while longer. (Note, those rates are substantially lower than SWA rates and are unadjusted for inflation of approximately 70% and were BEFORE the huge gains at UAir, UAL, and DAL in the late 90's).

Now guys want to show up on property at a very young airline and expect a Southwest style contract.

Who said that? Who on here said they were looking for Southwest rates and work rules?

Most people have said they wanted double-digit raises (15-20%) Almost half of that (9%) is simply COLA adjustment to put our current rates BACK up to where they should be adjusted for inflation and 3 years of not having a contract raise.

There's no way to completely bridge the gap from current AAI F/O rates to SWA F/O rates; that would be equivalent to a nearly 50% pay increase and no one has even mentioned that.

And if they don't have it they are looking for another airline to go to within 6 months. We all need to keep working for better things. The company needs an east west flow, the union needs a better contract, yada yada yada. It will all come in time.

Actually, I just finished recurrent, too. 4 of our initial 16 are gone, that's 25% attrition. 1 just quit in initial (DAL retiree), 1 went to FDX, one went back to NWA (furloughee), one even went back to ATA (go figure,,, doesn't make sense to me, but, whatever).

 

[Ty Webb]

My buddy who just completed AAI recurrent said that during the union speech,that there is even an idea floating to hire low time @200hour pilots from Embry Riddle.

This was another brainstorm of KG . . . . it was brought to the attention of upper management by the union. It will not be happening.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

This was another brainstorm of KG . . . . it was brought to the attention of upper management by the union. It will not be happening.

Come on Ty...dont' you wanna learn something from all those 200 hour superpilots???

 

[CitationLover]

Come on Ty...dont' you wanna learn something from all those 200 hour superpilots???

it would be interesting to pair the "i'm just gonna monitor you a couple of times" captain with the superpilots..........

 

[Ty Webb]

Come on Ty...dont' you wanna learn something from all those 200 hour superpilots???

Yeah, like which Oakleys go best with my new backpack!

it would be interesting to pair the "i'm just gonna monitor you a couple of times" captain with the superpilots..........

Ha-ha . . . I just flashed back to my 717 FO days . . . . I think the only Capt that I ever heard say that accidentally retracted the slats when I called for "Flaps Up". . . . probably too busy "monitoring" me!


.

 

[mad691]

looks like a couple of more sections TA'd this week. I heard only compensation and scope/merger need to be finished. May have a contract by the end of next week,maybe sooner.

 

[717capt]

We already have a contract. Might have a TA by the end of next week.
Here's a timeline and sequence of events.

June 1, 2007: Company and NPA negotiating commitee wrap up negotiations and TA the biggest piece of sh!t TA to ever come down the pike ever since Wilbur Wright talked Orville into giving up his dream of topless coast to coast steak houses and just concentrate on the airplane.

June 2: The afformentioned piece of sh!t TA is taken under armed gaurds and dogs to the NPA offices in ATL where it is reviewed by the entired NPA BOD. The NPA bod doesn't realize that this is a piece of sh!t because they are just as far out the the loop as the negotiating chairman. They think "whew, this is great and it only took us three years of negotiating to get it. send it out to the rank and file. They'll love it. after all it only takes 51% to ratify this piece of sh!t into a greater pile of sh!t. We will have a new contract and we will all look like heros. They will create giant busts of our faces and place them along Virginia Ave."

June 3rd. The piece of sh!t TA is made into 2000 copies and distributed to the rank and file. The airtran pilots are just glad to get something that they quickly go section 4 (compensation) and read over it carefully, forgetting that there are other sections. Some airtran pilots (like myself) will stand on their soapboxes in the crew room and yell at the top of their lungs (or at least as much as I can yell, for you see I smoke) NO!!! NO!!!! NO!!! don't do it.... read over the entire contract. don't just go to section 4.. read the whole thing. What do you mean 100 seat regional jets. what do you mean 13 hour duty day, what do you mean outsourcing..... just say NO!.

June 5: The NPA will put on a dog and pony show and reveal only what they want us to see. They will use powerpoint presentations and lases pointers. They will say," see, we got you 5 hours a month sick time." "see we got you 22 hours vacation." "see we got you hookers on layovers, (actually lets think about that one for a second)...thats what they'll say.
And when we, those on our soap boxes, start asking questions, they will deflect them, they will defer them, they will shelve them, because we have to vote.

June 7. The airtran pilots will prove to be too smart for the NPA BOD. They will band together as one and vote a resounding NNNNNNNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!.
the piece of sh!t TA will fail. It will fail big. It will fail misserabily. It will fail by 99.9% ( yeah I wish). We will scream, SEND IT BACK!!!!!.

June 8 The NPA BOD will all resign in disgrace (2nd time thats happened). Some will fall onto their swords whilst others will run into the woods (college park). Bands of airtran pilot possee's will seek them down. They will all be found. They will be bound and brought forth to the entire airtran pilot complement to stand before us and face the music. They will be dealt with swiftly and harshly, under gate C17. (except RD, I like him).

June 10. In all the confusion over the part few days, the negotiating chairman will seek to get requalified on 717. He will forget where everything is and even though he will have a "how to fly" manual at his side, he will crash the sim. However since he hasn't flown in so long, he won't be able to tell that it is a sim and think that he is really dead. He will then go home never to be heard from again.

July 1: There will be a whole new NPA BOD elected. The new administration will select a whole new group of unqualified negotiators to go down to the Reichstag and start all over. The company will get an even further extention to our current contract and the whole thing will start all over.

Thats just about how it will play out.

(you know I wasn't going to post this but I spent so long typing it out I figured what the hell.)

 

[Murphy]

Speaking of which, I just overheard 2 senior check airman on the bus talking how they are on the first page of seniority list and that they don't give a damn about the rest of pilots and just wanna sign up for the same contract we have now for next 4 years.
really hope they are a minority.

I think I flew with one of those guys. Happy as pigs in mud and don't want to disturb their perception of the gravy train...just a few more dollars an hour and it will be all good.

 

[Nindiri]

Whoa...hookers on layovers?!

Take that, Southwest and your 1-2-3 rule! :nuts:

 

[SLEDNECK]

June 8 The NPA BOD will all resign in disgrace (2nd time thats happened). Some will fall onto their swords whilst others will run into the woods (college park). Bands of airtran pilot possee's will seek them down. They will all be found. They will be bound and brought forth to the entire airtran pilot complement to stand before us and face the music. They will be dealt with swiftly and harshly, under gate C17. (except RD, I like him).


You had me at hookers but I like this part a lot!

 

[j41driver]

Yeah, like which Oakleys go best with my new backpack!

I just flew with a 6 year CA here that wore Oakleys and carried a backpack. No Ipod though...

 

[FlyWolf]

Hey guys, please excuse my ignorance in the matter, but have few questions:

- Do you get paid for canceled flights?

- Do you get paid scheduled or Actual?

 

[Ty Webb]

We already have a contract. Might have a TA by the end of next week.
Here's a timeline and sequence of events.

. .. . . . . . . . . Thats just about how it will play out.

(you know I wasn't going to post this but I spent so long typing it out I figured what the hell.)

You sir, you are killing me . . . . . . :laugh:

 

[SkiFishFly]

Flywolf

1. Yes
2. Whichever is higher.

 

[Ty Webb]

Hey guys, please excuse my ignorance in the matter, but have few questions:

- Do you get paid for canceled flights?

Of course . . . .

- Do you get paid scheduled or Actual?

Geez, Man, what do you think we are?

We get paid from "Main cabin door closed" to "main cabin door open" . . . . scheduled or actual, whichever is higher. 100% deadhead pay, etc., etc. Daily rig is 4 hours (soon to be more!). I generally fly 750ish and get paid a little over 1000 hrs of credit, but I am one of the lazier guys here . . . . .


.

 

[FlyWolf]

I thought so, thanks guys, there have been few rumors floating around here in the crew lounge and wanted to know for sure.

 

[Murphy]

I'm so tired of flying with guys who come from the military or regionals and expect to be a captain right away. Even if the Midwest deal goes through you are still going to get probably the fastest upgrade at a Major in the industry right now. So contract or no contract, you need to ask yourself a question. Do I want to be part of the team or not.

This is going to get some FOs on this board heated up. I came straight from the military. Did I expect or feel like I deserved to be a Part 121 Captain right away?...no. Do I think I'll be ready to upgrade at where the current AirTran upgrade time frame is (three years)?...absolutely. If it goes longer than three years.. absolutely friggin absolutely.

I expect FO pay in the new contract to be competitive with other carriers up to where the AirTran upgrade time is expected to be over the life of the new contract+new negotiations. Do I think it should be lucrative enough to cause FOs to homestead in the right seat and delay upgrade?...absolutely not....that money should be used to pump up the captain pay rates or improve other areas of the contract...duty rigs, trip rigs, 401k contribution, insurance, per diem, etc.

I don't bring up contract, upgrade, or my background in the cockpit unless asked. If the Captain doesn't want to talk about those things, we can talk about hookers or what Hillary Clinton looks like with no clothes on. No skin off my back.

 

[Lear70]

TI expect FO pay in the new contract to be competitive with other carriers up to where the AirTran upgrade time is expected to be over the life of the new contract+new negotiations.

Which begs the question:

How long do you think that will be?

5 years? 7 years? You included "the life of the new contract + new negotiations" which adds another 3-4 years on there.

I know what I think, but how far out do you (and others) think our F/O pay scale should be "competitive" before it goes to COLA?

Do I think it should be lucrative enough to cause FOs to homestead in the right seat and delay upgrade?...absolutely not....that money should be used to pump up the captain pay rates or improve other areas of the contract...duty rigs, trip rigs, 401k contribution, insurance, per diem, etc.

Slight hijack...

Straight from AP's mouth during recurrent:

"The insurance matter is one the company has absolutely REFUSED to budge on. They've indicated there is room to negotiate in other areas, but absolutely ZERO reduction in insurance premiums."

That was just this last Monday.

AP was also asked about the possibility of starting our own negotiated insurance rate for a group with a Blue Cross/Blue Shield HMO kind of deal since many of us have looked it up and we can get better rates individually than the company's "group" rates.

The answer was that the problem is *SOME* pilots have family members with pre-existing health conditions that raise the overall premiums to where it averages out to be the same or higher than the company's rates and yes, that means it's been looked at before.

Which begged the question, "How much does the company *claim* they pay of our health insurance?" The answer was the company *claims* they pay 60% of the premiums and we pay 40% (approximate).

That means in a bronze level HMO plan (cheapest) that a pilot with a family pays $384 per month and the company pays over $500? That makes the total cost over $900 bucks a month for one family?

I'm not buying it.

Wondering if a "healthy pilot insurance" group can be formed for everyone who fits the profile of having no major health issues with them or their families and seeing what kind of rate they would get as a negotiated discount with coverages better than or equal to the existing coverage. If it's $100 a month cheaper or more, might be worth getting a large number of people to switch over at open enrollment if we can't get the company to come down on the rates...

Just a thought. Inputs?

/thread hijack

 

[FIREMAN]

"That means in a bronze level HMO plan (cheapest) that a pilot with a family pays $384 per month and the company pays over $500? That makes the total cost over $900 bucks a month for one family? "

My bronze HMO is $307 per month for family, still to high. But it is cheaper and better than what my wife had working for a large hospital chain.

My last company paid for the pilots but if you needed family you had to pay for it $1000 per month.

 

[CitationLover]

....but I am one of the lazier guys here . . . . .

i will give a you run for the money at that title.

 

[TV9Driver]

at my last airline, insurance was 100% free. Now, as far as getting a "healthy" group of pilots together - i'd be voted off the island cause my wife has a "pre-existing condition".

 

[instructordude]

My buddy who just completed AAI recurrent said that during the union speech,that there is even an idea floating to hire low time @200hour pilots from Embry Riddle.

Not a bad idea for Airtran since they would get folks and probably retain them for a long time. Also Embry Riddle products are the best in the industry by far. I would go as far to say they are better trainied than military pilots.

 

[Kharma Police]

Not a bad idea for Airtran since they would get folks and probably retain them for a long time. Also Embry Riddle products are the best in the industry by far. I would go as far to say they are better trainied than military pilots.

So very true, and they have some hot female pilots too!!

 

[MarineGrunt]

Not a bad idea for Airtran since they would get folks and probably retain them for a long time. Also Embry Riddle products are the best in the industry by far. I would go as far to say they are better trainied than military pilots.

WOW.


Thats all I have to say about that....

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Not a bad idea for Airtran since they would get folks and probably retain them for a long time. Also Embry Riddle products are the best in the industry by far. I would go as far to say they are better trainied than military pilots.

Im speechless Because I just fell over laughing.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Not a bad idea for Airtran since they would get folks and probably retain them for a long time. Also Embry Riddle products are the best in the industry by far. I would go as far to say they are better trainied than military pilots.

Better trainied....? Care to quantify that little pearl of wisdom junior.