Originally posted by Cardinal
Everybody on this board needs to find and read a copy of the 1956 classic "Atlas Shrugged", by Ayn Rand. Then talk about feeling and caring. It's the only economics textbook that you'll never be able to put down.
Reading your post, I suspected it was written by someone whose knowledge of Economics was gleaned by a 50 year-old work of fiction.
Where do you get your Industry knowlege from? L. Ron Hubbard's "Scientology" books?
Let me recommend a book for you, my friend, it is called "Hard Landings- the History of the Airlines".
Even though your profile indicates that you have little industry experience, and you are experiencing the first furlough of the several you canexpect in your chosen career path, you want to tell me and the pilots of the LCC's what you, in your infinite wisdom, believe we should work for.
OK, Pal, we'll give you your chance:
How much SHOULD the pilots of a 117 pax airplane be making? BEcause you seem to have all the answers. But wait, let me give you the rest of the details-
I want to have a short, 1 hour on-line commute to my home in a beachfront community. I want to have the least chance of wearing the orange apron (furlough) or starting over in mid-stream. I want to upgrade quickly, so I can fly with my favorite captain every day, and the only time I want to cross the pond is when I am on vacation. Flight Attndents- please, let me not have to deal with more than three, and my penis is large enough as it is, thank you, I don;t need to be flying a "heavy" to feel that I have arrived. If it pays more, fine, but if causes a degradation in my schedule, upgrade or quality of life, I'll forgo the extra pay, I'm doing OK, thanks.
Oh, and I really enjoy working at a company where the vast majority of pilots are happy and spend relatively little time bitching- please don;t put me at anywhere where the corporate culture involves sitting around bitching about how the "Company" is screwing me.
Now, since you are the self-annointed Oracle of the Industry, why don;t you tell me where I should work, how much I should be willing to work for, Sporto?
Thanks, appreciate your efforts.
Ty,
People on this thread are trying to have a conversation about a critical subject, our careers, and you keep resorting to
ad hominem attacks, and addressing people "pal" with a tough-guy tone that frankly rubs me as arrogant.
That, all said... I think that in your heart, you care a lot about this industry, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
AirTran is not a major player like SWA all by it's self... but when you take AirTran, Frontier, SWA, JB, ATA, Spirit, Hooters, etc... all together paying wages ranging from 90% to 30% of major airline pay-scale (a guesstimate)... that exerts economic down force on wages in the rest of the industry. It is not feasible for Delta, and American to fly from Phoenix to Dallas, or Atlanta to Detroit in a 737 or 757 that is paying it's Captain and FO a combined Salary with Pension and other productivity related benefits, that the above mentioned LCC's aren't providing. And you have to ask your self, how well has our wages as pilots kept up with the other professional occupations... not well, I assure you.
College grads with a BA in Finance can expect between $34,000 and $43,000 per year at age 23... what does a 23 year old FO on a Brasilia or ATR make??? ... about $21,000/yr.. When I came to the "commuters" they were a stepping stone, no anymore my friend... they are the growth (at the expense of mainline) and as such those wages are no longer acceptable.
I don't mean to pick on SWA specifically, but I used them as an example as they are all on their own a HUGE factor in price pressure in the industry, which while helping the consumer, is killing our once glorious profession.
If you saw the movie Catch Me If You Can, you will remember how the pilots were very highly regarded back in those days, for many reasons, not the least of which was their position in the food chain or wages...
We'll SWA, and the other LCC's combine together to erode this dramatically.
Sure, there is more to the whole downturn than pilot wages, but it is nevertheless a piece of the pie that has to be addressed by
US as pilots, since we cannot effect the other factors, such as the economy and demand for international travel.
AirTran is a young company, and your pay is on the rise, and I can only hope that you continue to fight for top dollar as you shouldn't see your self as a second class pilot just because you don't fly for Delta.
Delta pay's their well, and provides a great pension, and so should AirTran...
In the specific case of AirTran, It is a known fact that AirTran has a good number of "scabs" most from Eastern flying there, and that may have hurt the pilot groups efforts to get a strong union, ALPA being more suitable IMHO than Teamsters on their property, but they are all near retirement age and then I would expect the younger captains that see themselves as career AirTran will take the helm and steer the company towards an Industry Average contract at the least... This is what Continental did, and Fedex... this is the best chance for the industry, a united union that will itself change from being a two and three tier union to a one tear union, and undercut the managers divide and conquer tactic.
But this whole Distinction between Major's and Nationals is BS... nothing more than an artificial title given by the DOT with the lobbying help of the ATA to companies that are allowed to pay less for the SAME WORK.
They're are lots of nice Toyotas produced in relative economic freedom. Keep up the good work.
