AA takes off without flaps!!!

[Laboule]

??

Hey Mamma,
How about reading up on this, instead:

INFER is what the receiver of the message does (that's you!). The sender of the message IMPLIES. Ugh.

 

[Laboule]

...and, MD11, it's had spokEN, not had spoke, but I'm sure you already knew that.

 

[Oh-ryan]

I'm all for the CRM stuff, however how much is too much. I'll take all I can get from jumpseaters, military bubbas... or just about anyone that has a commercial ticket, but think I'll pass on the guy working on his private license seated in 24D. I wouldn't discourage it or demean anyone who spoke up, but I don't think I would be asking the FA's to go back and see if that guy who brought his Garmin 296 thinks we should climb to FL370.

 

[jafo20]

I'm a freight pilot, so this is all new to me. How often do you guys really have someone from the back come up and critique your flying? Anyone ask why you're not doing a run-up in your MD-80?

 

[30West]

For all those calling this guy names for speaking up you really should rethink your position. There have been several accidents that could have been prevented had a passenger spoke up about the configuration or status of the aircraft. There have been questions of ice on the wing or the United 747 out of Hawaii that had structural damage that might have been prevented had the passenger who had the questions spoke up. But they sat there out of fear or embarassment and did not say anything. I would rather have my ego bruised than a cracked up airplane. I can't imagine living with myself if speaking up would have prevented a loss of life.

I remember the UA 747 accident in HNL back in 89 I think it was. But how would a pax have helped in this case? Did someone see something? IIRC a baggage door gave way and peeled a huge section off the side along with it as the a/c climbed thru 230.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

There was a passenger getting on the Aloha 737 that had the roof ripped off. After the accident, she told investigators that she saw a crack in the skin by the door. Turned out to be where the convertible top started.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

This whole website is so full of anger. We should all start, like, a pilot's fight club in some basement. Anyone know of a dank hole around IAD or YIP where we can all slug it out?

First rule of Fight Club--

NEVER talk about Fight Club.


(If you have to ask, you aren't a member)

 

[big_al]

a.net is always so amusing

 

[Cardinal]

I'm a freight pilot, so this is all new to me. How often do you guys really have someone from the back come up and critique your flying? Anyone ask why you're not doing a run-up in your MD-80?

All the time. Why didn't we fly a "straight-in" approach? (Busy Class B) Where's the carb heat? (PT6) Where's the mixture? (PT6) I didn't hear you do a mag check. (PW118) That was a textbook crosswind landing! (00000Kt). Are you sober? Are we going to deice? (+SN) It never stops.

 

[flynryan15]

Someone needs to nueter The Guat with a 16lb sledge!!!!

 

[Mamma]

Hey Mamma,
How about reading up on this, instead:

INFER is what the receiver of the message does (that's you!). The sender of the message IMPLIES. Ugh.

Ok. I am going to imply you are a tool for correcting grammer on an internet chat board and then end your statement with "Ugh." You are going to infer that I think you are a tool and maybe everyone else on this board thinks you are one too. You are then going to suck your thumb and call your mom. Have a nice day professor.

 

[glasspilot1]

Reminds me of the story of a United passenger listening to the channel of the cockpit audio . He heard the Captain say "We've got Wiskey" and turned the crew in to the FAA for drinking!

 

[Scrapdog]

[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=ARIAL,]The flight was AA 937 from MCO to MIA, an Airbus 300. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]

[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]A little background for this story. My friend was on this flight and has a private pilots license. He enjoys sitting behind the wing and watching the flaps, and other control surfaces do their thing. In addition to being a private pilot, he flies as a passenger a lot on AA. [/FONT]

[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]Today, during taxi to the runway, my friend is sitting behind the wing and watches the wing for the flap extension before take-off. Friend starts to panic because as the plane approaches the runway and turns for take-off, still no flaps. With one of the F/A's sitting in front him, he tells the FA about the flaps not being set and the FA reaches for the phone to the flight deck but then hangs it up w/o saying anything. My friend now is really in a panic as the plane begings its take-off roll. However, the A300 takes-off with plenty of runway to spare and after landing in MIA, my friend asked the pilot during deplaning why no flaps and the pilot said that sometimes we can do no flaps to save gas!!! However, the pilot did say that slats were used.[/FONT]

[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]Flight was relatively full and we are talking a widebody here. I'm also someone who enjoys sitting behind the wing and watching the flaps on take-off and landing. From everything I've read and heard, I though that flaps were a must and I'd probably have panicked a little to. [/FONT]

[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]After all, how many other people on the flight were looking out the window thinking, oh my god, there's something wrong? Is this something airlines are now doing to save gas or has it always been done? Anyone else here would have thought something was wrong? I got a good laugh out of this and thought Id share with you all!![/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

Guat - wait, don't tell me...your last name is instructordude.

 

[Laboule]

Ok. I am going to imply you are a tool for correcting grammer on an internet chat board and then end your statement with "Ugh." You are going to infer that I think you are a tool and maybe everyone else on this board thinks you are one too. You are then going to suck your thumb and call your mom. Have a nice day professor.

Nice job, Mamma...you improved your grammar today. Now if we could work on your whole sucking theme...I guess you're a sore male flight attendant.

 

[instructordude]

Guat - wait, don't tell me...your last name is instructordude.

Sorry, I'm my own problem.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Some Fighter guys, like you, are a CRM nightmare. I wish your crew good luck.

Thanks for the generalization about my CRM skills based on how I think a private pilot should conduct himself on an airliner when he believes he sees something wrong.

I didn't know that your pax were considered part of the "crew" on an airliner. Guess I have a lot to learn about CRM.

Looking at this thread (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/showthread.php?t=2263&page=20) it sounds to me like there is frequently an armchair pilot sitting in the back waiting to second guess your act up front.

Examples:

I was flying from RIC to ORD in an EMB 145. Upon landing a passenger said he was going to turn us into the FAA. He said he had an altimeter watch and according to it we never got above 8,000 feet. He said we definitely busted the 250 knot rule for flight below 10,000 feet because we got to ORD way too quick. I introduced him to our FAA jumpseater giving us a line check.....

Flew into Burbank the other day. The big fires nw of the city were still raging, and we flew through a portion of the smoke plume that had been blown onto the arrival. The cabin got a slight whiff of wood smoke for a few seconds, and some light chop. After we land and park at the gate, the airplane shifted onto one of the main struts a little bit (settles). While one lady was getting off, she accuses us of flying so close to the flames of the wildfire that we melted the tires, hence the settling on the ground! With an imagination like that, I assume she was in town to write screenplays...

Had a passenger tell me there was a panel missing on the wing because he could see through the wing to the runway when we landed with full flaps and the spoilers deployed

 

[skiandsurf]

Thanks for the generalization about my CRM skills based on how I think a private pilot should conduct himself on an airliner when he believes he sees something wrong.

I didn't know that your pax were considered part of the "crew" on an airliner. Guess I have a lot to learn about CRM.

We all know that Korean Airlines has a bad safety record. I heard a "story" where a UAL FA was in the back of a KAL plane and the plane caught on fire while on the ground. The Flight Crew didnt initiate the evacuation. Passengers were starting to panic, and this UAL FA initiated the evacuation herself. As the story goes, the pax all got out but the pilots died in their seats. Something about it is more shameful to get out than have to live with breaking an airplane.

Any old UAL guys on here that can confirm this "story".

 

[embpic1]

Well guys I must admit if I had been on that plane I would also have been concerned. First let me say that I have never been on an A300. I also have never been on a large transport category aircraft that used 0 degrees trailing edge flaps for takeoff. I have never even heard of such a thing until this thread. Images of the NWA MD80 crash in DTW come to mind when I think about taking off with no flaps. Also the Delta 727 crash in Dallas.

I have had 'private pilot' passengers question me after a flight about a concern they had (taking off with a tailwind etc..) and have no problem giving them a brief explanation of why.

 

[embpic1]

Thanks for the generalization about my CRM skills based on how I think a private pilot should conduct himself on an airliner when he believes he sees something wrong.

I didn't know that your pax were considered part of the "crew" on an airliner. Guess I have a lot to learn about CRM.

I would say you do have a lot to learn from this statement.

I would rather have hundreds of false alarms with reports from passengers than not get one report that could have saved our lives.

 

[Irishav8r]

Well guys I must admit. If I had been on that plane I would also have been concerned. First let me say that I have never been on an A300. I also have never been on a large transport category aircraft that used 0 degrees trailing edge flaps for takeoff. I have never even heard of such a thing until this thread. .

Grant it, I fly the A-300B-4 not the -600 AA operates, but besides having 2 guys up front rather than 3, I can tell you it is absolutely positively routine on the A-300 B-4 model. Again, even at Max takeoff weight. I do think though that guys should take it easy on the guy. To be perfectly honest, I had never heard of it either until I was in the Sim.