AA Pilots BOD turns down Last Best Offer from AMR!

[IBNAV8R]

Nic is not binding because it was an internal (flawed) ALPA process. We we seperate opps now so the SLI will be a 3 way. Parker said so himself! The Nic is DOA

I really have no dog in this fight but it doesn't matter who arbitrated the SLI. It's a freedom-of-contract issue. Both sides signed the contract - agreeing to BINDING arbitration.

It doesn't matter in the least who or what decides the SLI - nor does his/her affiliation. Whether it was a mediator with a bazillion airline cases under his belt, Daffy Duck, an arm wrestling match, poker game, or coin toss, you agreed to the method beforehand. You had a contract.

Now, you think a new mediator is going to just ignore this contract and overlook the previous BINDING arbitration - to which you already agreed?

You guys may have gotten the short end but a contract is a contract. Deal with it.

 

[dollacrackho]

If apa wants to merge with airways why are they working so hard to get a contract with amr management?

 

[JetMonkey]

If apa wants to merge with airways why are they working so hard to get a contract with amr management?

Would you be in a hurry to have your paycheck slashed?

 

[AMRCostUnit]

If apa wants to merge with airways why are they working so hard to get a contract with amr management?

Good question...it was explained to us as a means to an end. A deal with AMR is not an endorsement of their operation. It keeps us on the inside with respect to the creditors committee where we have some influence. With a 13.5% stake in the new company (if voted up) the pilots would have the largest piece. Rough numbers would be an average of $100K per pilot. We can keep up the pressure to do the USAir deal on the rest of the committee. If we vote it down, then we would most likely be excused from the table as our claim would be voided. The joys of BK.

That being said, the deal on the table is far from pretty (locking in 319 rates for a long, long time (10 years) at way less than industry average) and the 1113 is even less pretty. People just fed up and angry out on the line. Don't much care anymore. Last place for on time, cancellations and diverts for April. Rumors of several guys a day just quitting...they've had enough looking at their 3rd furlough in some 6 years. It just ain't worth being an AA pilot anymore. Really sad.

58 retired 1 June and it's estimated that over 100 will go on 1 July. They just cut the schedule. Full planes in the summer travel season and they just cancel flights. Great management there...all the pilot's fault.

The only way to stop the slide is to park the brakes and go home. It would be too late at that point I think...don't know what it would take to bring us back. And I'm not talking a strike here, just a mass resignation of 500 or so guys on the schedule for the day and we'd be done...Eastern II

Unit

 

[Flyby1206]

AMR has a revenue problem. They lose money in LAX, DFW, ORD, LGA. Break even in MIA and make money in JFK. AA's not big enough to recapture the flying we need to in order to survive. DAL and UCAL offer better options and service for the premium passengers. All AMR wants to do is codeshare/outsource everything is can to the lowest bidder. That'll win back the premimum pax for sure! NOT!

I completely agree that AA has a revenue problem, and DAL has the economy of scale to capture that premium/business traveller, but their scope clause far surpasses anything AA has even proposed to APA. Do you want to be like DAL if it means giving up 100-200 70+ seat RJs? Unfortunately, I think that is what it will take to really gain size to win back those customers.

Many moving parts here. For example, the USAir deal increases the OneWorld alliance (BA and Willie Walsh) from 15 to 25% of the alliance share. Attractive for them. ToHo and crew get large payouts for exiting BK and also a merger. He's just looking for the money. He's not an airline guy in the least. He jumped to AT&T, made a pile there, and came back to AMR in 2006 when he got a $7m PUP bonus for just 7 months work. Parker, Horton and Arpey all worked in the same AMR cube farm 1987. Parker is no saint but has done a good good with USAir on the business side of the equation.

The APA CLA with USAir is weighed heavily in Parker's favor with many references to binding arbitration which are bad words. In the end, AA has to generate revenue or die off in a few years. Neither path is a sure thing won't be fun for those of us involved.

Unit

Horton is no doubt just a hatchet man. Look at his work at AT&T and see the role he plays now. Same thing. Someone else will no doubt come in to run the company when BK is over. Parker has done OK with US, but I think any of us could do the same with a divided labor group that is operating under bankruptcy wages far below any competitors. I dont believe in his magical powers as some like to think he has.

 

[wms]

The market needs fewer legacies, and this is the way to do it. 3 mega carriers, a few LCCs will be able to fight better against the Emirates and Singapore Airlines of the World. The US Legacies need to make consistent profits to be able to order bigger planes to protect the US market and go out and fight for others.


Bye Bye---General Lee

What they really need is a better product. Pax services, inflight and value is what the foreign carriers have that us carriers won't have until the old stews are gone.

 

[Golden Falcon]

until the old stews are gone....

Yup you're right..."fat" chance of that ever happening, if the outcome of the merger is USAPA disappearing, then that might be worth it, APA should make that a condition of the merger...

 

[SIG600]

What they really need is a better product. Pax services, inflight and value is what the foreign carriers have that us carriers won't have until the old stews are gone.

Level the playing field by cutting off gov't money for those foreign carriers first.

Oh, and work rules. Think a US carrier would ever get away with firing a flight attendant for getting pregnant?

 

[JumpersAway]

If USAirways ties the knot with American, I'm sure USAPA will be gone, shearly on membership votes alone. APA will undoubtedly run the show, as their numbers are far superior to USAPA's membership. I don't think any negotiating capital needs to be wasted here, or any concern should be given to this, what so ever.

I think that an American merger with USAirways/AmWest would be a "System Reset" to the issues that plague the current USAirways/AmWest seniority SNAFU. Take all three groups, renegotiate an integrated seniority list (something that WILL be done) and pour the pilots into one unified company. I think we're approaching a point where there will be enough attrition to keep everyone happy, so upgrades and company movement will finally break loose. The question is, how many USAirways/AmWest pilot's will refuse to look beyond the past in order to capture the opportunities of the future?

 

[Schwanker]

The SLI will be date of hire with fences- no problems with senile arbiTRAITORs.
You can count on it

Just curious,
Would an AMR 2001 hire with 3 months on property (still furloughed) be blended with those hired in 2001 or 3 months ago in your scenario?