AA Future Plans/Hiring

[BacktoAA]

I've stated in previous threads that I believe the recall rates/new hiring will depend on future aircraft deliveries at American. A new ask and answer on the company site shows our current delivery plans for the next two years. I believe that if these numbers start going up, which I think they will in the next six months or so, then people will be coming back.

Aircraft Deliveries

Q: How many 737/757/ 767/777 have we received in 2002, and how many are planned to be delivered in 2002/ 2003?

A: We will or have received 3 B777s and 7 B757s in 2002. There were no B737 deliveries. The plan for 2003 includes 6 B777 deliveries, 4 B737 deliveries and the 9 B767 replacements for the retiring TWA B767s.

 

[bayoubandit]

You are the eternal optomist aren't you? I hope your right. I look forward to the day I get to go back.

In furloughity.

 

[TWA Dude]

Just received from Kudwa's Captain's Corner:

First, I want to fill you in a little bit on our Recalls. We are pretty excited about getting these pilots back in the cockpit. I thought you might like to know a few of the statistics.

We have recalled 208 furloughees effective May 1st. That means they will go back on payroll May 1 and train as the slots become available. By the time we get through training everyone, it will be the end of 2002. We hope to recall more furloughees early next year.

The bid choices for our returning pilots include F/O slots in:
§ LGA 767 Domestic and International
§ LGA S80 D
§ BOS S80 D
§ ORD S80 D
§ ORD F100 D
Approximately 1/3 of these folks will be requal.

Of the 208, 42 will be on a Military Leave and 3 have deferred. Everyone else is coming back. I have received messages from many of them and their enthusiasm can only be described as electric! I am not sure who is happier about this, me or them.

Boldprint added by me.

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

I hope you are right. THis furlough thing is getting realy old. One message from the company I read says the 208 getting recalled will be trained in May, June and part of July. This is a long way from the end of the year. How close are you guys from the top or bottom...

 

[Humblepilot]

Question

So this is a recall of actual AA pilots without pushing out TWA LLC pilots? Just curious

Humble

 

[BacktoAA]

So far all indications are this is an actual recall. The recallees are going back to the AA side, and TWA is supposedly manned appropriately, if not a little short. TWA has stated that there will be no further furloughs from that side, so there we are. We all hope the recall notices keep coming, but I think it won't be until the end of the year before the next group is recalled.

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

Re: Question

So this is a recall of actual AA pilots without pushing out TWA LLC pilots? Just curious

Humble

Yes. After single carrier was annonced 208 "real" AA pilots were senior to the staple date (March 10) of TWA's Pilots. The next 310 pilots to be recalled are former TWA pilots and then there is 383 (i think) AA pilots to be recalled. Hope we all get back reAAl soon... If there is another furlough the 208 would still have jobs because all the rest of the furloughs will be from TWA.

 

[bayoubandit]

Yep,

I'm real tired of this furlough too, and its only been 6 months. I got real bored the other day and ran the numbers off of the new seniority list. Of the original AA'ers in the 386, I counted 290 above me and 190ish below me. So I asked myself, 290+190=386. Well I kept counting. I didn't realize the 100 or so in ground school were not in the 386 number. Have you guys come up with the same thing?

So that's where I lie, about 600 in front of me to go. It's going to be awhile. This sucks.

Later.

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

From what I understand (which is not much) the numbers do not match up because some of those guys are from the Eagle Flow through, but since you have already finished training the former Eagle pilots will not come on the property until all of the 310 and the 386 get called back even though they are probably senior to both of us. How's that for a run on sentence. I am 58 from being called back, but that is just as good as being 758 away. I beleive they will not call back until they are way short of pilots and they will figure how to train a hell of alot more than 50/month. Again I do not know anything that you have not read.

 

[bayoubandit]

No worries, my Louisiana education learned me how to read run on sentences good. Your probably right, they will be maxing out the reserves and be begging the union to allow them to flex. In the meantime, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[BacktoAA]

Are we sure that all of the 386 will get called back before the Eagle flow-through guys? In going through all the cryptic information we get from the company, it seems as though the 100 or so folks still in training at the time are considered "terminated with recall rights" and therefore are not protected by supplement W which governs the flow through/back. Ok, since these folks are not allowed to flowback, is the reverse true in that once the recall gets to them, the Company must hire any Eagle flow-through pilot that has met the 2 year lock-in (there may be a few of those by then) before continuing on to recall the remaining 100 furloughees? We have been told explicitly that no Eagle flow-through can come on property until all the furloughees are back. But does this include the furloughees that are considered terminated with recall rights? From what I understand there are over 400 Eagle types that have seniority numbers that have yet to show up on property. These folks are not counted in our furlough numbers, but if they have to be hired before the terminatees (ugh, don't like the sound of that word) then we might as well add 400 to the 690 we will have on Furlough as of May 1st. Any thoughts?

 

[bayoubandit]

I found this in a question/answer thing from APA. The last paragraph should clear things up.


Q. What about my probation period while at AE?


Management has clearly stated that a furloughed AA pilot who accepts a CJ Captain position at Eagle and has not completed the 12 month probationary period at AA will complete the remaining months of probation at Eagle if they completed less than 10 months of probation at AA.

Also, keep in mind the following: Eagle Flow-Through RJ Captains will not be integrated in the recall to AA. Furloughed pilots will be recalled in seniority order. Once recalls are completed, AE flow-through pilots will be hired at AA in accordance with Supp W,


The italics are mine.

 

[BacktoAA]

But does that clear it up? Again, the last sentence says "in accordance with Supplement W". The last one hundred folks aren't covered by supp W. Both the Company and the Union have stated so. So when push comes to shove and 400 Eagle guys are pointing at supp W what will happen? What's enforceable in court? Remember, the guys without a late occupational seniority date were originally terminated, but the APA negotiated recall rights for them. I'm not trying to pis* anyone off, I just want to make sure we get all the facts on the table. I truly don't know what the company will do, but being a sh*thouse lawyer like most pilots have to be, I'm trying to interpret this cacaphony.

 

[bayoubandit]

Call APA and ask them. I understand your point of not being furloughed, but being terminated. So the question is: Does Supp. W for Eagle flow-through pertain to those with recall rights (furloughed) OR those who were furloughed AND those who were terminated.

I'm fuloughed, so I know I go back before any Eagle guy can come over. I would definitely call APA to find out if you are one of the terminated guys.

Let us know what you find out if you call.

 

[BacktoAA]

Actually I'm a furloughed guy also, by about a dozen people or so. I was just pondering the question for those after us.

 

[TO/GA]

I was at the APA offices today, and I asked them that question. They stated that ALL AA pilots will be recalled before any Eagle flow throughs are offered a class at AA. This DID include the 100 or so pilots that were still in training when the furloughs were announced. The Eagle flow throughs will not be offered classes until AA begins to hire again.

 

[bayoubandit]

Thanks for the info! You have any idea how many Eagle types there are senior to the most junior AA guy to go over?

 

[BacktoAA]

This ask and answer may help. It also confirms that the Eagle flow-throughs won't show up until all furloughees are recalled.

Furlough and Recall Numbers

Q: Please help me make sense of the pieces of information which I have been able to obtain regarding furlough and recall numbers. Based on the information I have seen, at present, there are 594 AA pilots and 310 TWA pilots on furlough. The announced recall of 208 AA pilots on 5/1/02, which I understand will align the current furloughs with the integrated single seniority list, means that there will be 386 AA pilots still on furlough. Yet on the published single seniority list, there appear to be 486 AA pilots below the most junior TWA pilot. Why does there appear to be a discrepancy?


A: You have a clear picture of the furloughs. There are 594 on furlough from AA and 310 on furlough from TWA. 208 of the AA furloughees are being recalled May 1. This will leave a total of 696 on furlough.


Now to clear some of the confusion. On the combined seniority list there are about 410 Eagle flow through pilots who have upgraded to Captain on the RJ, have been assigned a seniority number at AA, but had not finished their two-year lock in. Since they were never hired, they are not being recalled. They will come to AA when we begin the new hire process somewhere down the road. You can identify these pilots by looking under the DOH column. Since they have not been hired, they have no class date listed.


By my calculation there are 475 pilots listed junior to the most junior TWA pilot. This means there are 386 on furlough and 89 Eagle flow through.


To give you more information than you asked for, by my calculation:


On 4/10/2001 there were 14,360 pilots on the combined list:



AA 11,613
TWA 2,337
AE Flow 410
Total 14,360


Hope this helps.

Anne Evans
Director Flight Administration

 

[bayoubandit]

Now that we've beaten the recall order to death, are the first few newhire classes going to purely Eagle. What else do we have to talk about now?

 

[bayoubandit]

Hey guys,

Just spoke to a friend of mine DFW S80 FO. He said the flying has really picked up. He's on reserve, flew 75 hrs last month and has been called everyday this month to go fly. Hopefully this trend keeps up.