a thought about this industry...

[cl65200]

"Sorry, I knew that. I was just trying to prove a point that newhires can't be blamed for lowering the bar because they don't have that type of influence."

Mostly agree, unless they join a PFT or a "Freedom Airlines" type company..................

 

[rgd]

This is my passive income.

 

[charlie1]

pas-sive in-come \'pas-iv 'in-kum\ adj : monies received without having to work. eg., real estate, stocks, monies payed to you by your "women-of-the-night," etc. Monies received from a job is NOT passive income.

 

[SenorSpielbergo]

'monies payed to you by your "women-of-the-night," etc.'

Keep yo' pimp hand strong!

 

[Mr Hat]

I'm gonna tell you what I think...some will say I'm drinkin kool aide or whatever...I dont really care.

Yes, the "regional" guys are underpaid. Yes, the Majors are in a schlump.
This has all happened before. Sooner or later the industry will straighten itself out. All we gotta do is continue doing what we do. Whipsawing, low pay, concessions, furloughs will soon give way to higher pay, explosive growth and enough flying for everyone, then we'll go right back to where we are right now again. This industry is a continuous cycle.

I am certain that as long as we stick to our guns and remain professional, the two tier pay of Major vs. Regional pilot will go away, the gap is too large to sustain over time. I'll go one further and say that I think that eventually all jets will be flown by major carriers. Once the pay equalizes itself, what is the advantage of having two companies at an added cost?
One of these years, your going to see a mass consolidation of the airlines, regional and major alike. All it takes is one CEO to make the decision to consolidate and the rest will follow his lead, it is the way of things in this industry. Everyone follows eachother around.

So when your down about contract negotiations or recieving your paycheck, do what I do....Try to remember that day when you were hired, if you don't have kids, it was probably the best day of your life. I was so thrilled when I got hired, my mouth hurt from smiling by the time I got back to EWR, and I was about to take a pay CUT from my CFI job. Hang in there, there is light at the end of the tunnel, any 777 CA will tell you that because they've all sat where you are right now.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Sorry, I knew that. I was just trying to prove a point that newhires can't be blamed for lowering the bar because they don't have that type of influence.

Let's put the blame on the company where it belongs. It's our fault if the issue of PFT is not addressed in the contract. If, as working pilots, we are not willing to take a stand against it by requiring a no PFT clause in the contract then I can hardly blame a new hire. I keep hearing...."Why should we take some kind of hit for someone who doesn't even work for the company yet?"

 

[Mr Hat]

Not to be on the side of PFT but would you go work for SWA if they offered you a job right now?


I certainly would.

Who in the regionals still does PFT anyway, I thought that went out with bell bottoms.

 

[hellas]

Reading these post and most of the regional boards makes me know for certain I was correct for leaving the regional industry. ALL managments in this industry suck and suffice to say so do most of the pilots. I asked one question to myself, am I happy waking up and going to work. NO was the overwhelming reponse. Was the pay good? NO, it was embarassing even after 5 years. Did managment appreciate me? NO, if you dont think that is important go work for a real Fortune 500 and you will see the difference! But I do miss the people and relationships...
Anyway, I got 5000% better job. I can buy things, go places and get this, even have a life without scheduling sucking the life out of me. What I am trying to say is GET OUT of this industry there has to be something more redeming than drunken overnights and the almighty turbine PIC time in the regional industry. If you are offended then you are blind, if you understand get motivated and GO!

 

[Winged Sig 599]

LMFAO



Passive income:

"Monies paid to you by yo women of the night."

LMAO

That was great. Glad to see that some folk in the regional industry still have a sense of humor. By the way, my womens' is out workin them streets right now! j/k

 

[flx757]

Not to be on the side of PFT but would you go work for SWA if they offered you a job right now?

People who continually bring up SWA and PFT in the same sentence obviously don't have a very good grasp on PFT. PFT is company required, company (and aircraft) specific training that the company is required (by the FAA) to provide, but that the company requires YOU to pay for as a condition of employment.

I have a B737 type rating. Paid for by a previous employer. This didn't cost me a nickel of my own money...nor was is provided by SWA as part of their FAA approved training program. However, I am still qualified to apply and be hired at SWA. So how, by anyone's definition, is this PFT????

 

[crj579]

Anytime an airline requires you to be typed before hired, then you are picking up a cost that normally is done by the company at most other airlines. In a sense, you are helping management. What if every regional required a type in a B1900, CRJ, etc. before getting hired? I guess in your world there is nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact, I don't know why regionals havent started doing it already with all the pilots out on the street. Hey JO......heres an idea for ya!

 

[flx757]

Anytime an airline requires you to be typed before hired, then you are picking up a cost that normally is done by the company at most other airlines.

I see you missed my point completely....like that's a big surprise on this board. Did you not read the part where I PICKED UP NONE OF THE COST OF MY 737 TYPE? That it was paid for by a previous employer. SWA doesn't require ME to pay THEM. THAT is PFT. If you still don't see the difference, then I guess you just aren't gonna get it....so believe what you will.

I guess in YOUR world, that ATP that is required before hired is PFT, too....

I have better things to do . See ya.............

 

[Publishers]

what

What if's

What if pilots realized what an insignificant part they play in the total airline personnel makeup./

Raising the bar-- can you ever get over it.. You are not a critical element in the equation of a successful airline.

crj549 has some concept of what a normal airline does. No clue is what I see.

 

[rgd]

Ok, its not passive income, its my part time job. Is that better Webster? Good God almighty, it was a joke. Somebody needs to lighten up.

 

[SigAV8R]

Let's put the blame on the company where it belongs. It's our fault if the issue of PFT is not addressed in the contract. If, as working pilots, we are not willing to take a stand against it by requiring a no PFT clause in the contract then I can hardly blame a new hire. I keep hearing...."Why should we take some kind of hit for someone who doesn't even work for the company yet?"

I am not endorsing PFT! As a matter of fact, I agree with you 110%. I'm a CFI with 700+ Dual Given trying to get a spot in the right seat of regional airliner. My posts were intended for the original thread topic. Newhires can't be blamed for being excited to finally (for most of them) have a job at a regional airline. And they don't have any pull to effect a change. That was the intent of both of my posts.

 

[climbhappy]

mr hat, premise started our okay, but

you say everything will be back to normal, i think you're mistaken.

The new benchmark fare for coast is around $300.00

the segment fare for a north /south trip is 99 to 199.

southwest started. ticket prices are coming down. which mean they will stay down. wages are down because revenues are down.

To think as a pilot group, one can somehow control market forces, well, that's drinkin koolaid alright.

not to mention ACA is getting ready to crank up their low fare deal, only to ask pilots for concessions. Well, let the pissing contest begin.

 

[CFIcare]

I know we are talking airlines but...

Let's play the situation out in regards to a corporate job. Most corporate jobs nowadays want time in type, preferably type rating in the type to be flown, FSI or SimuFlite in the last 12 months, AND a current 8410 if part 135. They point to their insurance requirements *BUT*.......they say....

If Big Time Corporate outfit with Challengers, Lears and Gulfstreams agrees to put you in the right seat of one on the condition that you go get a type an SIC course on your own nickle first, would you do it, and is that also PFT? Sure the company is required to provide training for it's pilots, but the fact is it won't hire anyone without experience in type, therefore they skirt that obligation with new hire people and just pay for the recurrent training for pilots already on board.

Now, this is happening all the time, not just at "shady operators" but with reputable 135, 91 and 91K places because of all the yahoos who previously got their type training on the employers dime and flew the coop when the airlines called back in the pre 9-11 heyday. I've talked to many chiefs of corporate flight departments and they all say the same thing. That and no matter how good the industry gets, they won't likely be going back to taking that chance with new pilots again. One guy told me how they paid for someone's GIII training and they up and left for Delta within a week of getting it. Now entry level people trying to get in the right seat of a Citation or Lear have to pay the consequences.

So question is, if you had to pay for your own SimuFlite school to get the job, is that more on par with paying for a rating like your ATP...in that it qualifies you to apply for the job? Or is that just another mutation of the classic PFT or PFJ scenario?

 

[Mr Hat]

you say everything will be back to normal, i think you're mistaken.

I suppose it all depends on your definition of normal. The truth is, the airlines are still equalizing from deregulation and the competition that the founders of the deregulation movement envisioned is finally coming to light. This was bound to happen. Now, does that mean we all need to take pay cuts? No. We've already taken pay cuts being that pilot compensation is the same as it was prior to deregulation (less in some cases), just because of inflation alone pilots make less. Now its time for airline managements to change the way they do business (and quit raiding the company bank account with silly bonuses)
All that being said....I would fully support REregulation. The deregulation act only weakened the U.S. airline system. I find it ironic that United was the only airline back in the day to support deregulation and now they are about to be killed off by the competition that they wished for.
Our job is to stick to our guns with regard to our profession and compensation so as to stop any further degredation of our livlihood. It doesnt mean we have to hate ourselves when we go to work, just stick to your guns, it will all work out in the end. When they start building pilotless airliners, start worrying.