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a thought about this industry...
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91100 100 set
to the book
- Joined
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- 694
Well, like I said, there are some companies out there that I am not interested in working for. The interview I attended was for a company that I am interested in working for. I was not attacking or criticizing this young woman for interviewing with this company, and I hope it works out for the both of us. What bothered me however was her comment that gave me the distinct impression that she'd have gone just about anywhere for the opportunity (priviledge to some?) to fly some sexy jet to far-flung places.
Like furloughedagain said, this is a job, not a hobby. Granted, I feel fortunate that I still enjoy flying, so I can say that I enjoy my job (at least enough to still put up with all the other garbage), as hopefully all of us do, lest we would not be on this board having this conversation, instead of getting a real job in some office cubicle somewhere. However I do realize the importance of making it a livable job and not chasing the dream that appears to be going away by going to some revolving door airline with a 6 month upgrade. In case you haven't noticed, that revolving door isn't turning so quickly anymore.
Like furloughedagain said, this is a job, not a hobby. Granted, I feel fortunate that I still enjoy flying, so I can say that I enjoy my job (at least enough to still put up with all the other garbage), as hopefully all of us do, lest we would not be on this board having this conversation, instead of getting a real job in some office cubicle somewhere. However I do realize the importance of making it a livable job and not chasing the dream that appears to be going away by going to some revolving door airline with a 6 month upgrade. In case you haven't noticed, that revolving door isn't turning so quickly anymore.
Publishers
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2002
- Posts
- 1,736
Door
The problem is that the job this person had does not exist. Exactly why they are looking for somethng and are willing to take less than they think they deserve.
Yes , the majors will be back but they will be slightly wounded and the opportunity for new people, way down stream. Things change and the prestige and all the other aspects may be greatly diminished. The existing pilot corp has never cared a bit about the newhires and that is why the contracts are the way they are.
There are a bunch of coporate and fractional jobs that pay more than regionals. It is the hook on the lure that get people to see only the glory on the end and not the path.
It has always been this way and always will be to some extent.
The problem is that the job this person had does not exist. Exactly why they are looking for somethng and are willing to take less than they think they deserve.
Yes , the majors will be back but they will be slightly wounded and the opportunity for new people, way down stream. Things change and the prestige and all the other aspects may be greatly diminished. The existing pilot corp has never cared a bit about the newhires and that is why the contracts are the way they are.
There are a bunch of coporate and fractional jobs that pay more than regionals. It is the hook on the lure that get people to see only the glory on the end and not the path.
It has always been this way and always will be to some extent.
climbhappy
ex pat
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
- Posts
- 2,159
91.100,etc
hey,
i see your point of view and can draw the line as to how you came up with it, but it's wrong, in my opinion.
wages are based on the cost to bring a product/service to market.
the majors decided to farm out feed to the lowest bidder. the costs of operating rjs means an accountant has said if we bid this price, and the airplane payment is this and all the costs are factored in, we can pay the pilots this to get a 10 15%return.
Comairled the way with rjs ina ten year cycle that burst with 9/11. southwest meanwhile has been copied twice now with airtran and jetblue. in mautre industries wages come down.
the problem is , our profession is no longer the glamour job of the past. it really makes you wonder how and why one would put up with all this crap to make the peanuts.
your interview friend simply shows how desperate every one is to stay in the game. many older, mature pilots will be probably doing the career switch in reverse. i turn 43 next month, and could see that on the horizon if things don't improve soon.
hey,
i see your point of view and can draw the line as to how you came up with it, but it's wrong, in my opinion.
wages are based on the cost to bring a product/service to market.
the majors decided to farm out feed to the lowest bidder. the costs of operating rjs means an accountant has said if we bid this price, and the airplane payment is this and all the costs are factored in, we can pay the pilots this to get a 10 15%return.
Comairled the way with rjs ina ten year cycle that burst with 9/11. southwest meanwhile has been copied twice now with airtran and jetblue. in mautre industries wages come down.
the problem is , our profession is no longer the glamour job of the past. it really makes you wonder how and why one would put up with all this crap to make the peanuts.
your interview friend simply shows how desperate every one is to stay in the game. many older, mature pilots will be probably doing the career switch in reverse. i turn 43 next month, and could see that on the horizon if things don't improve soon.
English
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 3,374
In all fairness, to the two posters who complained about the girl at the interview and the interviewee in the back of the airplane flying to an interview -
As someone trying to get a job, it is usually good form to appear positive and upbeat. These two interviewees might very well have agreed with all the comments posted here about the working conditions and wages, but if they wanted the job, they SURELY would not complain about it in a waiting room for the interview, or in a plane in front of current employees.
There is a place to make a statement about the downward spiral of the industry, but it is not at the interview. Unless, the statement is to not even interview in the first place. But since 91, 100, 100, set still interviewed, I take it he wanted the gig.
91, 100, 100, set, mentioned that the girl came across as willing to endure any conditions just to fly a shiny jet. Keep in mind she was interviewing for her first airline job. She was rightfully excited to be there. And appropriately, she did not bag on her prospective employer! You can't expect a prospective job applicant to be jaded before they even get on the line.
As someone trying to get a job, it is usually good form to appear positive and upbeat. These two interviewees might very well have agreed with all the comments posted here about the working conditions and wages, but if they wanted the job, they SURELY would not complain about it in a waiting room for the interview, or in a plane in front of current employees.
There is a place to make a statement about the downward spiral of the industry, but it is not at the interview. Unless, the statement is to not even interview in the first place. But since 91, 100, 100, set still interviewed, I take it he wanted the gig.
91, 100, 100, set, mentioned that the girl came across as willing to endure any conditions just to fly a shiny jet. Keep in mind she was interviewing for her first airline job. She was rightfully excited to be there. And appropriately, she did not bag on her prospective employer! You can't expect a prospective job applicant to be jaded before they even get on the line.
SigAV8R
gigidee gigidee gigidee
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2003
- Posts
- 229
IMO, basically the industry has to be changed from the INSIDE. You can't criticize the newhires (I'm not even at that point yet) because they have no power to effect a change. To be able to raise the standards, it takes the people already on the line and already "in the game" to make the stand come contract time. I don't think anyone on here could honestly say they would have turned down their first airline job just because of the pay/working conditions. Or the fact that they would refuse to go to the interview until the company standards got higher. Granted, there will always be the person willing to take the job, but to bring about a change would take the collective actions of ALL pilots (already employed) to raise the bar.
ALPA isn't going to help raise the bar where it should be. If regional pilots stood together (ALL REGIONAL PILOTS, not just Company X or Company Y), then the hope for change exists. But just because one company agrees to a contract that makes THEIR individual pay and QOL better, they should not be criticized for "lowering the bar" or "dragging the industry down". They're doing what's best for them. If all regional pilots joined in on one pilots union decision to strike, then there would be a much bigger impact across the board for regional pilots than each company's individual plight. For example, when Mesaba's pilots were threatening to strike, you mostly heard from Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots going to the picket lines. What would have happened, if pilots from XJT, AE, ASA, Comair, and the like joined in and refused to fly until Mesaba pilots could get a contract that "raised the bar across the board"? The collective "regional pilots" voice would have been 10x louder. In the end, Mesaba pilots passed a T/A that improved THEIR situation. And that's all they could do.
Everyone claims to want the industry to change, but when company X decides to strike everyone not employed there becomes a sideline cheerleader and nobody wants to jump into the fight. And then they say the pilots "didn't do enough to raise the bar". The only other comparable option would be to standardize pay rates across the board based on the equipment flown. Then the QOL would be more of an issue with regards to benefits, schedules and the like.
Again, that is just my $.02.
ALPA isn't going to help raise the bar where it should be. If regional pilots stood together (ALL REGIONAL PILOTS, not just Company X or Company Y), then the hope for change exists. But just because one company agrees to a contract that makes THEIR individual pay and QOL better, they should not be criticized for "lowering the bar" or "dragging the industry down". They're doing what's best for them. If all regional pilots joined in on one pilots union decision to strike, then there would be a much bigger impact across the board for regional pilots than each company's individual plight. For example, when Mesaba's pilots were threatening to strike, you mostly heard from Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots going to the picket lines. What would have happened, if pilots from XJT, AE, ASA, Comair, and the like joined in and refused to fly until Mesaba pilots could get a contract that "raised the bar across the board"? The collective "regional pilots" voice would have been 10x louder. In the end, Mesaba pilots passed a T/A that improved THEIR situation. And that's all they could do.
Everyone claims to want the industry to change, but when company X decides to strike everyone not employed there becomes a sideline cheerleader and nobody wants to jump into the fight. And then they say the pilots "didn't do enough to raise the bar". The only other comparable option would be to standardize pay rates across the board based on the equipment flown. Then the QOL would be more of an issue with regards to benefits, schedules and the like.
Again, that is just my $.02.
If all pilots spent half as much time studying their aircraft, and enjoying their careers as they did on the virtual "whinery" all places of employment would be a better place to be. Nothing is perfect, except for the two-tier tax system in place, one for the rich and intelligent and one for the masses. Bottom line is nobody is going to be financially independent working for someone else. Isn't that why we're jocking for the best airline, seniority number and the like? If we as pilots spent half the energy we spend on discussing the ins and outs of our industry as we did looking for ways to increase our passive income, then we wouldn't really care for the income but more so the enjoyment of flying. After all, isn't that why we fly? A must read, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki. #1 best seller for over 10 years!!!
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