A Review of Avantair

[Geronimo4497]

Part 3

The Ugly: Pay! When I hired in I was told that upgrades to captain were running 9-12 months. I accepted the sub-standard F.O. pay on the premise that I would pay my dues the first year and get upgraded. That didn’t happen. Upgrades at Avantair were completely stopped in December 08. The training department is now telling FO’s to expect a second full year as an FO. Avantair thinks it’s second-year F.O.s are worth a whopping $37,000 per year. Due to the upgrade stoppage and insulting pay….I turned in my notice at my 1-year mark with the company. I can bartend 2 night per week and make more money than Avantair pays it’s FO’s, never being away from home, never missing a holiday or a kid’s birthday. It didn’t make financial sense for me personally to stay at Avantair.

I’m sorry that the world economy almost collapsing interrupted your upgrade expectations. Didn’t Grandpa ever tell you to not go to an airline based on upgrade time? It really does stink because I have many friends here that have not made it to the left seat yet and they have really earned it. It’s too bad you didn’t wait for it, as you were only about 20 numbers from it on the seniority list. Well, maybe it is a good thing for the rest of us. Yes, jab intended.

As of today, F.O’s are expected to take the captain check-ride at their 12th month of employment (instead of an FO re-currency check), but not expect the actual upgrade or get the captain pay raise. The F.O.s are also required to do the captain “6-month checks” as a captain would, but not get captain pay. That puts the F.O. at risk for busting a check-ride, of which no compensation even exists.

Stinks, yes. It is a much better use of the training departments rescources, however. I’ll be more than happy to let the ‘non-upgrade upgrades’ fly the left seat on repo legs to make sure that are current and comfortable from both sides. I believe there are plenty of other Captains that would do the same.

There has been a recent rash of failures during upgrade/re-currency checks. I’m not sure if a lot of pilots suddenly became bad pilots, or if the company is tightening up things because of the number of resumes on their desks. The consensus seems to be the latter of the two.

So, fire people so we have to spend double the money to hire someone new and then spend over a year bringing them up to speed so they can upgrade? That is quite the consensus you have going. Where were we in the hiring cycle 12-18 months ago? It was still going gangbusters and most large operators were hiring almost anybody that applied and qualified. “Quantity over Quality” is rearing its ugly head in my opinion.

I quit working overtime for them when most of my overtime pay wouldn’t show up on my paychecks. I shouldn’t have to keep calling them to get my pay straightened out. They did eventually give me all of my overtime pay, but it took several weeks and many, many calls and e-mails.

It happened to me twice during my early time here. It has not happened since. You may recall there have been many back office changes since that time. It’s a shame you didn’t work more as we may have had the chance to fly together. I’m sure that would have been an interesting experience.

Synopsis: One guy who posts here says it is the best job he has ever had. It probably is. For me, it was the second worst job I’ve ever had. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Good luck.

Indeed. Good luck to you also.


Overall my experience at Avantair thus far has been good. Things are not perfect, but I do see a trend of things getting better every 6 months or so. I fly the line and get to do my job safely without any undue interference from HQ. That is all I expect. I think this company has a long future ahead of it and I plan to be here to watch it grow. The schedule gives me the opportunity to pursue all of the things I was unable to do at my last place of employment and I am paid a fair wage so I can afford to do all of those things. Sure I would like to make more eventually, but I also want it to be sustainable long term. I don’t think this company can afford what the competition pays, but that is not a surprise as we fly an airplane that costs half, or less, of what the competition is operating. As a result, management fees don’t generate the same revenue. Seniority and longevity is the key here, as it is with most good jobs. Peace out, my hands hurts from typing too much. I think I’ll have a beer with lunch. I love my week off. :beer:

 

[BoeingBaller]

Hey baller, put some in that gapping wound on your face and STFU.

NJA pilots weren't always paid what they deserve. Here's to bringing Avanti up to a level where they can enjoy a better quality of life supported by their product.

Again, great job on the "Pitchmen" show!!

AMF

Harsh realities are sometimes hard to deal with, but as long as your happy there that's all that matters. Do you still get your whopping one week of vacation for your first two years of employment.

 

[Helmsalee]

If they are on 7/7 sched, 7 days vacation gets you 21 days off. Most folks would need 3 weeks of vacation to do that.

 

[HazMat]

It just boggles my mind that a NetJet guy right now would be critical of anything about Avantair. The number of resumes and resume postings to our employee website from NetJet pilots is unreal. Yet we have people like baller talking smack.

 

[G-force]

Re: Pilot Haters- MGMT!!!!

This place sounds like the "bottom of the food chain" fractional,in other words,a BOTTOMFEEDER!!!
I am glad I passed on this place,after reading the first post in this thread,it seems like mgmt. hates the pilots!!!
Not a good place to work!!!

 

[HazMat]

G-Force read the rest of the thread. You couldnt be more wrong.

 

[DelphinDriver]

At first I was offended

This place sounds like the "bottom of the food chain" fractional,in other words,a BOTTOMFEEDER!!!
I am glad I passed on this place,after reading the first post in this thread,it seems like mgmt. hates the pilots!!!
Not a good place to work!!!

After a review of your past posts i noticed all your posts seem to end sentances with multiple exclamation marks or question marks. Just curious are you this angry of a person in real life? If so I'm very happy you chose to pass up Avantair. I for one enjoy my job so much my wife is jealous of it. Our CP ACP's rock and ALWAYS have my back. Our DO is a hard nose to those VERY few pilots we have that can't seem to toe the line, that's his job. I have never had a problem with him and I doubt I ever will because I do waht I sighned on for. The company culture here is the closest to Southwest airlines than I have ever seen anywhere. The big boss said he wanted that, I didn't believe him at first but now I owe him an appology because he is dam sure doing it. Avantair ROCKS! Deal with it. BTW pilot services is exactly that, they take care of our needs, treat em like doodoo and you go to the back of the line. How you can post based on the first post is moronic at the least not to mention STATING you had only read the first post.

 

[AftCG182]

It's been a while since I was a new-hire F/O, full of new-hire enthusiasm and wanting to spread the word about how great life was at Avantair.

The situation at that time: jobs=plenty, pilot applicants=few. It was a pilot's market, for sure. I wanted to make sure that anyone who wasn't 100% satisfied with their job might want to consider a move to Fractional life and a job here at Avantair. My enthusiasm was mostly directed towards the regional pilots.

So here it is 19 months later. What's happened?

Well, after having a blast as an F/O, I upgraded at 11 months. My first year income was $44K-ish. Remember, mostly F/O pay. I'll get back to everyone next year and let you know how I made out during my 1st year as Captain (which will be mostly 2nd year Capt. pay).

My quality of life has never been better. As a "Displaced Dad", the 7/7 schedule is awesome. It provides me with more time with my daughter than 99% of the Displaced Dad's in other types of flying jobs and in other career fields. Plus, younger kids like the regular schedule. The generous first-year pay has allowed my to provide for everything my four year-old has needed so far.

Training department? Outstanding. There has been a shift in the culture of the training department, though. You really need to be prepared when you show up for a check ride these days. I believe another poster on this thread has experienced that as well.

Management? Couldn't be better. There is no "Pilots vs. Management" mentality here. I disagree with a previous poster's claim that the management here isn't pilot friendly. This is my fourth aviation employer, and this is the pilot-friendliest management I've ever experienced.

Maintainence? I've never been asked, never mind forced, to fly something broken. I have to dispute an earlier claim to the contrary.

What's it boil down to? I'm still excited to be working here, still love the Avanti, and still recommend Avantair to anyone who isn't 100% satisfied with their flying job. Life's too short. This is indeed the best flying job that I've ever had. As a side note, I am also truly sorry that another professional has had such a rough go of it here. Good luck to you.

Added note: the economy IS going to recover, wealthy people WILL get their discretionary spending money back, the fractional industry will remain our reward for getting our pilot certificates in the first place. Let's hang together as a group and we'll all thrive in the long run.

 

[gunfyter]

It just boggles my mind that a NetJet guy right now would be critical of anything about Avantair. The number of resumes and resume postings to our employee website from NetJet pilots is unreal. Yet we have people like baller talking smack.

Haz,

I don't believe any NJ guys have posted anything negative in this thread. I don't see convincing evidence Baller is at NJA....

 

[HazMat]

Gun my apologies I thought he represented himself as a netjet pilot. Even if he is I shouldn't have lumped all netjet pilots together. It just pisses me off when outsiders comment on something they know nothing about.

 

[gunfyter]

No problem. He may be... Ive been on this board a few years ... I just don't recognize him

 

[BoeingBaller]

Gun my apologies I thought he represented himself as a netjet pilot. Even if he is I shouldn't have lumped all netjet pilots together. It just pisses me off when outsiders comment on something they know nothing about.

Not a NJA guy nor did I represent myself as one. Not a "outsider" either.

 

[glasspilot]

Do you still get your whopping one week of vacation for your first two years of employment.

That would indicate to me you don't work at Avantair....ergo, an "outsider".

 

[glasspilot]

What is obvious is the thread starter worked for one year and left because he could not upgrade as forcast.

All the rest of his claims can be dismissed by the simple fact that if he had upgraded he would still be here. Would he really stay if the company stole he OT, pushed pilots, violated OpSpecs, disregarded safety, flew "dangerous planes" or any of the other tripe he came up with? Short answer...no, and if he did he would be just as bad as he claims the company to be.

No, this is a hair trigger guy who simply didn't get his way and decided to stomp off and exact his revenge by plastering as much negivitiy as he could on as many public forums as he could. He actually threw down $10 just to get the last word!

I hope he understands that everyone knows who he is and aviation is a VERY small community. Good luck...

 

[DelphinDriver]

Good to see you back Glass! Well said.